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21 Answers

CFI Renewal Flight Portion

Asked by: 14578 views Flight Instructor

I'm trying to figure out if I need to reinstate my CFI or not, but I've just completed my CFI renewal online.  The last renewal, I never completed the flight portion, and haven't flown in about 4 years.  According to 61.197, it looks like I'm OK, but in order to fly, I'll still have to take the 1 hour flight with an instructor, and receive an endorsement.  Does that sound correct, or would I have to reinstate?

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21 Answers



  1. Micah on Apr 27, 2012

    This is something you should be able to answer yourself. This community will be helpful, but not comments may be gentle. Tell us this about yourself:
     
    1. What is the expiration of your previous CFI certificate?
    2. If you’ve completed your CFI renewal online, does that mean you’ve completed the entire package to be submitted for your renewal application? Have you received a response from them?
    3. When you receive your (re)new(ed) CFI certificate, what will be required of you to use the privileges of your certificate?
     
    I’m sure there are other useful questions that I can ask, but see if the answers to these questions answers your question re: renewal vs. reinstatement. And finally:
     
    4. In what cases may a CFI renew his/her certificate and in what cases must a CFI reinstate his CFI certificate?

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  2. Ryan Miller on Apr 27, 2012

    Your CFI is good for 24 months from date of issuance. If you didn’t renew within this window you will have to reinstate it. This means you will have to take a checkride. If you don’t have your CFII take that checkride and it will reisnatate your CFI automatically.
     
    It appears you need a flight review if you haven’t flown in over 4 years. If you do your reinstatement, that will count as your flight review.

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  3. Nathan Parker on Apr 27, 2012

    “If you do your reinstatement, that will count as your flight review.”
     
    A CFI checkride does not count as a flight review, unfortunately.

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  4. Ryan Miller on Apr 27, 2012

    Nathan,
    Please read 61.56.
    “(d) A person who has, within the period specified in paragraph (c) of this section, passed  a pilot proficieny check conducted by an examiner, an approved pilot check airman, or US Armed Force, for a pilot certificate, rating, or operating priveledge need not accomplish the flight review required by this section.
    (f) A person who holds a flight instructor certificate and who has, within the persiod specified…renewed a flight instructor cert need not accomlish the 1 hr ground…
     
    What did I miss?

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  5. Brent Gilmore on Apr 27, 2012

    Let me give a little more info. CFI expiration date is 31 May 2012. I did the AOPA CFI Renewal program online, and all the paperwork is in the mail. According to everything I’ve read in the FAR’s or currently know, in order to use the CFI privileges, I have to do 1 hour of flight time with a CFI. Where the gray area lies is I can’t find a specific time frame I have to do the 1 hour of flight time to exercise the CFI privileges.  4 years pass by pretty quickly when you’re broke.  I know if I never attended the CFI renewal course and completed it in time, my CFI would be expired, and I would have to have it reinstated.  I know either way, in order to get current on my commercial rating I would need to have a current 3rd class medical, and a flight review with a CFI requiring a minimum of 1 hour of ground and 1 hour of flight.  I don’t plan on doing any flight instruction in the near future, but I would like to keep it valid.  Hopefully this clarifies some of the questions.  This may require a call to the FSDO to clarify.  Thanks for all your replies though.

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  6. Brian on Apr 27, 2012

    “Nathan,Please read 61.56.”
     
    Ryan, Nathan is correct. Please read the LOI regarding this topic:
     
    http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/pol_adjudication/agc200/interpretations/data/interps/2008/levy.pdf
     
    Specifically, “The answer is that a successful completion of a flight instructor practical test within the
    preceding 24 calendar months does not automatically relieve a pilot of the requirement to
    complete §61.56 flight review. A flight instructor practical test is not a pilot proficiency check for a pilot certificate, rating or an operating privilege, or any other acceptable
    substitute for a flight review specifically listed in § 61.56( d). A flight instructor practical test
    is not primarily focused on piloting skills but rather on one’s instructional skills.”

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  7. Micah on Apr 27, 2012

    Ryan, 61.56 is regarding the flight review, which is related to a pilot certificate and not a CFI certificate. Also, see that a flight instructor practical test is not in the list you refernce.
     
    Now, a CFI test can be used to satisfy 61.56, but not de facto. You should discuss this with the examiner (preferably beforehand) and ask if they will also grant the flight review sign-off. Nathan’s statement is factually correct, but that does not mean you cannot use a flight instructor test to meet these requirements.

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  8. Ryan Miller on Apr 27, 2012

    You don’t have to do a 1 hr flight with a CFI to use your CFI privledges? If you want to be PIC, you need 1 hr flight with CFI and 1 hr ground (or the other exceptions like taking a checkride, WINGS). The 1 hr flight is for your flight review, not CFI privledges. It allows you to be PIC, not CFI.
    You are smart to keep your certificate valid. NEVER let it expire. Broke or rich. I let mine expire and I took a reinstatement checkride. All you have to do is the FIRC which you did and obvisouly sumbit the paperwork for renewal within 3 calendar months of expiration. Your online FIRC counts as your 1 hr gound for your Flight Review as well. Take a 1 hr flight (or whatever the CFI , and you, deems necessary for your proficiency) and you can be CFI and PIC.
    You only need a 3rd class medical to be an instructor. If you use your commerical priveldges then you will need a 2nd class medical.
     

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  9. Micah on Apr 27, 2012

    Brent, to be more specific to your question(s), I think you’re confusing the requirements for your pilot certificate and your CFI cerficate.  If you’re sastifying the requirements 61.197(a)(2)(iii), then what else do you need to do to make your CFI certificate current? 

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  10. Ryan Miller on Apr 27, 2012

    Oh I love this board!! We can agree to disagree.
     

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  11. Micah on Apr 27, 2012

    Ryan, as I understand it, you need no medical to exercise the privliges of your CFI certificate. But you must use your CFI certicate in conjunction with your pilot’s license if you are acting as PIC. In that case, you must have the medical certificate that matches the level of privileges you are using from your pilot’s certificate.

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  12. Ryan Miller on Apr 27, 2012

    Micah your right! I agree.  However, I wouldnt dare say that on this board becuase you draw the response of 100 pattern pilot CFIs quoting me LOIs (heavy on the “interpretation” of one lawyer who prob. doesn’t even fly 🙂  and CFRs out the wahoo!
    I disagree with the CFI checkirde not counting towards a flight review. I’m trying to be practical here and see the sillyness of the debate.
    Examiner: Ok, CFI I just renewed your certificate to teach people flying and adminster flight reviews, however, you can’t fly yourself until you take another minimum 1 hr flight with wet behind the ears CFI even though 61.56 clearly says “(d) A person who has, within the period specified in paragraph (c) of this section, passed  a pilot proficieny check conducted by an examiner, an approved pilot check airman, or US Armed Force, for a pilot certificate, rating, or operating priveledge need not accomplish the flight review required by this section.  But if we would have taken a private pilot checkride today, this counts as your flight review? However, your CFI CFII, MEI checkride it doesn’t count as your flight review.
    Like I said no matter what I say or anyone else for that matter will be subject to everyones interpretation. Call FSDO in New York they will tell you one thing, ask examiner X the same question, he/she tells you a completely different “interpretation” call FSDO in Florida another “interpretation” assign this question to another lawyer you will get another “interpretation”.
    By the ay anyone see the shullte land today at JFK? Lighten the mood 🙂

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  13. Nathan Parker on Apr 27, 2012

    “I disagree with the CFI checkirde not counting towards a flight review.”
     
    Hmmm, you really don’t have the right to disagree.  Your interpretation is contrary to the regulation and contrary to the LOI of the FAA’s General Counsel’s Office.  Whether the latter is a pilot or not is irrelevant; their interpretations provide the marching orders for FAA enforcement, and supercedes anything a local FSDO has to say on the matter.  BTW, do you understand the difference between a pilot certificate and flight instructor certificate?

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  14. Ryan Miller on Apr 27, 2012

    Classy response, Nathan! No, CFRs (Code of Federal Regulations) are the marching orders not LOIs (Letter of Interpretation).
    I really don’t have the right to disagree? Last time I checked I lived in the USA and you sure can disagree. That’s why we have a court system. However, under your “interpretation” I guess if you violate a law, regulation. what have you your automatically guilty. No recourse on your end, your sunk, no chance. No lawyer, no rights, no nothing. Interesting…
    My interpretation isn’t contrary to 61.56 the CFR. It’s pretty clear. Contrary to the LOI, to a certain extent, yes. 
    Like I said. Agree to disagree. Enough said.
     
     

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  15. Nathan Parker on Apr 27, 2012

    “My interpretation isn’t contrary to 61.56 the CFR.”
     
    Really?  You think a Flight Instructor certficate is a Pilot certificate?

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  16. Brent Gilmore on Apr 27, 2012

    Thanks for all the info guys, but please play nice.  I’d hate to be the instigator of a feud.  So here’s my take on it from everyone’s input, and from 61.56 and 61.197, or until the FSDO calls me back and gives me a different answer.  Don’t know how long it will take for that call back.  Hopefully not another 2 years.  So, I shouldn’t need a reinstatement, because my CFI hasn’t ever expired according to 61.197.  The CFI certificate is only good as long as my Commercial Rating is valid, which requires a flight review every 24 calendar months, according to 61.56.  Since I took the CFI Renewal course, which counts as my 1 hour of ground for a flight review, I still have to do the 1 hour of flight to make sure my Commercial Rating is valid.  Once my Commercial Rating is valid again, I can legally utilize my CFI certificate.  The difference in a pilot rating and an instructor certificate is a pilot rating allows me to act as PIC of an aircraft.  A instructor certificate authorizes me by the FAA to instruct or teach.  Agree or disagree?

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  17. Micah on Apr 27, 2012

    Brent, again more specifically: your assumptions appear correct even if you’re confusing what you need. Yes, your CFI renewal counts toward the ground portion of your flight review. And the flight review is required to be use your pilot’s certificate. And you must have a valid (including currency, etc) pilot’s certificate to provide instruction with your CFI (except in those cases in which you are not PIC/required crew member.) And yes, it’s always better to renew than let your certificate lapse. So it appears that your understanding is correct even if your words don’t represent what you mean to say/ask, which is understandable for someone who hasn’t flown in four years, no matter the level of the certificate(s) you hold.

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  18. Micah on Apr 27, 2012

    Brent, that looks correct to me. Sorry for double-posting on top of your response.

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  19. Brent Gilmore on Apr 27, 2012

    Sorry for any confusion Micah.  Thanks for the responses.
     

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  20. Brian on Apr 28, 2012

    “No, CFRs (Code of Federal Regulations) are the marching orders not LOIs (Letter of Interpretation).”

    Nathan, I can’t figure out if we are being trolled, or if he’s serious. -_-

    Ryan, thumb through the LOI’s and see who authors them. Their titles are usually something like the one posted, “Assistant Chief Counsel for Regulations.” An LOI provides us with clarification as to the purpose of a regulation, as it was intended by it’s writters. As such, they are the marching order for how we are supposed to interpret the regulations. 

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  21. Lagmanbek on Jan 23, 2015

    See the thread, “CFI Renewal Does Count As Flight Review”. As of November, 2013 there is no more “agree to disagree” about this!

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