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13 Answers

PIC time

Asked by: 3454 views FAA Regulations, Helicopter, Private Pilot

Hi,,If a Commerical Pilot(not a CFI) offers a Private Pilot the oppertunity to fly with him on Powerline right of way patrol in a helicopter,,can the private pilot log PIC as long as he is the sole man. of the controls,,if so,,the private pilot is logging pic,,while the commercial pilot is acting as pic,,is this correct..The goal here is for the private pilot to get some turbine time!! What do you guys think?

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13 Answers



  1. John D. Collins on Mar 06, 2012

    Although not specifically stated, I am assuming that the private pilot is not rated in a helicopter and the commercial pilot is. From a logging standpoint, the one manipulating the controls can log PIC for that time if they are rated in the aircraft. With my assumptions, the private pilot is not rated and therefore can’t log PIC time even when they are the sole manipulator of the controls. The commercial pilot must act as PIC if the private pilot cannot act as PIC, but not being an instructor, the commercial pilot may not log PIC time that the private pilot is the sole manipulator of the controls. So during that time the private pilot is the sole manipulator of the controls, neither pilot may loc PIC time.

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  2. Kris Kortokrax on Mar 06, 2012

    Not sure why you would assume the Private pilot isn’t helicopter rated.  However, the impact on the Commercial pilot is unchanged.  While the Private pilot is manipulating, the Commercial (non CFI) may not log PIC time.  Typically, one who seeks to log “turbine time” is a newly rated helicopter pilot who aspires to a non-CFI job.
     
    When I was Chief Instructor at a 141 Helicopter school, I developed a pipeline patrol course of instruction and did this very thing (with a piston helicopter).
     
    The quality of the turbine time acquired depends on what you allow the Private pilot to do.  Is he just driving the helicopter around in level flight?  If I were looking at a pilot’s logbook to hire him, I would not put much stock in this time.  Starting the engine without cooking it, maneuvering with heavier loads where he needs to be concerned about overtorque or overtemp is more useful.  Time where he has to “be” PIC, not just hold the controls while you babysit him is useful time.

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  3. John D. Collins on Mar 06, 2012

    Kris,

     

    The Op implied that the Commercial pilot had to act as PIC. The OP didn’t specify the private pilot ratings, so I made an asumption and stated them for clarity. I am not familiar with helicopter ratings, but is a type rating required if the helicopter is turbine?

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  4. Kris Kortokrax on Mar 06, 2012

    I would say the Commercial pilot has to act as PIC because the operation (pipeline patrol) requires a Commercial pilot certificate, not because of the Private pilot not being rated.
     
    Only type ratings required are if the helicopter is over 12,500#.  Very few of these.

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  5. John D. Collins on Mar 07, 2012

    Kris,

     

    You could be right. I simply declare my assumptions so that anyone, such as yourself, can see how I arrived at my conclusions, and if their assumptions are different, they may so state them. Also it gives the OP an oportunity to easily clarify his question if my assumptions are not applicable to his question.

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  6. Jason on Mar 07, 2012

    Hey Kris and John,
         I am the the one that asked the question!!
      My basic concern here is that the private pilot (who is rated in the the helicopter) can legally log pic time in his log book!! Dosnt matter what kind of time it was(strait and level,loads,etc) as long as it counts as pic in the log book!! And also,,I would think that the commercial pilot would have to act as pic since the helicopter is operating for hire,,,but the student is manipulating the controls! So the student logs pic while the commerical acts as pic(but cant log it) this correct?

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  7. Jason on Mar 07, 2012

    Commerical Pilot and private pilot we are talking about here!! I said student by mistake in one of the last sentances on that last post!!Sorry

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  8. John D. Collins on Mar 07, 2012

    Jason,

     

    My understanding is that since both are rated in the helicopter, the pilot who is solely manipulating the controls can log PIC time for that time they are the sole manipulator.

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  9. Kris Kortokrax on Mar 07, 2012

    Jason,
    We know you asked the question.  The assumptions we made were a result of the lack of clarity in your question.
     
    It is correct to state that the Private pilot manipulating may log PIC time.  It is further correct that the Commercial (non CFI) pilot may not log PIC time while the Private pilot is manipulating.
    As to your statement that it doesn’t matter whether the time is straight and level or not; at the end of your initial question you said “What do you guys think?”  I told you what I think.
     
    As I said earlier, I think that the time (while you may log it as PIC) is not worth much.  If I am going to hire you, I will look at your logbook and see that you logged the time riding along (holding the controls) while someone else was responsible for the flight.  This is not meant to be insulting, just the way the real world works.
     

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  10. Jason on Mar 07, 2012

    ok,,so one more question,,so the private pilot is manipulating the controls and is logging pic time!! During that time the commerical pilot can not log pic!! Question is,,is even though the commerical pilot is not logging pic during this time,,,,is the commercial pilot ACTING as pic?

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  11. Jason on Mar 07, 2012

    so during this time when the private pilot is flying(logging pic),,,,is the commercial pilot ACTING as PIC even though he cant log PIC?

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  12. Kris Kortokrax on Mar 07, 2012

    It’s not “one more question.”  It’s the same question over and over, looking for a different answer.  In your first post today, you acknowledged that the Commercial pilot had to act as  PIC.  Did you forget?

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  13. Jason on Mar 07, 2012

    I asked if that was correct, about the commercial pilot being able to act and not log pic,,,thats why I put “is this correct” on the end of it!! thanks for your input

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