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CFII’ s are only allowed to flight instruct if……..

Asked by: 44975 views FAA Regulations, Flight Instructor

I was suprised to find out that a CFII is not allowed to flight instruct if they do not hold a CFI rating.  Refer to FAR 61.195. 

14 Answers



  1. Kris Kortokrax on Nov 08, 2011

    Can you elucidate?  What wording led you to that conclusion?

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  2. James on Nov 08, 2011

    I found this out from AOPA about two weeks ago.  I have a friend who is a CFII who had asked me a question in regards to endorsements.  I couldn’t find the answer so I contacted AOPA for help.  AOPA asked me if this person had a CFI.  I said no.  They just had a CFII.  To my suprise AOPA informed a person can’t be flight instructing without holding CFI certificate. 
     
    Note FAR 61.195 (especially the bold face) 
     
    (c) Instrument Rating. A flight instructor who provides instrument training for the issuance of an instrument rating, a type rating not limited to VFR, or the instrument training required for commercial pilot and airline transport pilot certificates must hold an instrument rating on his or her pilot certificate and flight instructor certificate that is appropriate to the category and class of aircraft used for the training provided.

     

    This is the document that the FAA is using.  The requestor was a CFI-I that did not hold a CFI.  The FAA says that he did not have category and class on his certificate only instrument airplane.

     
    Needles to say I imagine there are a lot of people unaware of this.  AOPA is trying to change this rule.  Hopefully, this rule will be changed. 
    http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/pol_adjudication/agc200/interpretations/data/interps/2010/Grayson-2.pdf

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  3. Wes Beard on Nov 08, 2011

    James you are correct.  The FAA updated the Part 61 regs recently and made that change.
     
    I don’t think there are a lot of CFII’s without at least a class rating on their certificate.  It really only hurt the CFI without a MEI as they can no longer give instrument instruction in a multi without having the MEI.

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  4. Matthew Waugh on Nov 08, 2011

    This used to be allowed – mostly on the basis that if it wasn’t prohibited it must be allowed. Then the FAA issued an interpretation that said it wasn’t allowed anymore, and now we apparently have the regulation change making it clear.
     
    I’ve certainly run into people who just got their CFI-I’s because they just wanted to teach instrumens and didn’t want to sully their hands with primary students. But I wouldn’t say it was common.
     
    I assume that this doesn’t prevent the practice of sending people for the CFI-I as the initial CFI? I also haven’t dissected this too much – but at first blush can a CFI-I conduct an IPC?

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  5. Kris Kortokrax on Nov 08, 2011

    From page 42536 of the Federal Register dated August 21, 2009, the following text appears:
     
    “In § 61.5(c)(4), the rule is clear that the instrument rating on the flight instructor certificate relates to the aircraft category rating, and is not issued to the aircraft class rating. The phrase in § 61.195(c) that states ‘‘that is appropriate to the category and class of aircraft for the training provided’’ applies to the category and class of aircraft on the flight instructor holder’s pilot certificate……..
     
    In accordance with § 61.195(b)(1), a flight instructor who does not hold the appropriate airplane multiengine rating on his/her flight instructor certificate and the appropriate airplane category multiengine class rating on his/her pilot certificate may not conduct instrument training in a multiengine airplane unless that flight instructor holds the appropriate airplane category multiengine class rating on his/her pilot certificate and flight instructor certificate. A flight instructor who only holds a flight instructor certificate with an Instrument-Airplane rating and no airplane category multiengine class rating on his/her pilot certificate may not conduct instrument training in a multiengine airplane.”
     
    The language in the Letter of Interpretation on the second page appears to mirror the above text concerning a proscription against providing instrument instruction in a multiengine airplane unless one possesses a CFI certificate with a multiengine rating.  Neither the Federal Register preamble language nor the Letter of Interpretation make a statement that one cannot provide instrument training in a single engine airplane while only possessing a CFII certificate.  I would posit that AOPA is reading something into the Letter of Interpretation that was not clearly stated.
     
    As an aside, the following quote appears in the Letter of Interpretation:
     
    “As such, a flight instructor is precluded from providing flight training in a specific class of airplane if the instructor does not have that class rating on his or her flight instructor certificate.”
     
    This would appear to preclude me from providing flight training in an Airplane Single Engine Sea airplane because my flight instructor certificate states “Airplane Single Engine.”  There is no provision to place “Airplane Single Engine Land” or “Airplane Single Engine Sea”  ratings on a Flight Instructor certificate.  61.5(c)(2) delineates only two class ratings for Airplane Flight Instructor certificates, “Single-engine” and “Multiengine.”  However, I can provide instruction in an Airplane Single Engine Seaplane because the rating appears on my pilot certificate.
     
    What I take from the letter is that it would be perfectly fine for a person holding a CFII certificate to give dual instrument instruction, including an IPC, in a single engine airplane without possessing a CFI-A single engine certificate.  It would not be permissible for that same individual to give dual instruction in a multiengine airplane without possessing a CFI-A with a multiengine rating.  A properly worded response from the Office of Legal Counsel would have been written  clearly enough so that this question would not arise.

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  6. James on Nov 08, 2011

    Kris
     
    Page 42536 of the Federal Register dated August 21, 2009 that you refer to is dated prior to the current 61.195(c) which became effective October 21, 2009.  The letter I provided  is dated January 4, 2010 and refers to the current 61.195(c).      
     
    Believe me I don’t have all the answers to this that is why I contacted AOPA and my local FSDO. The local FSDO just read the “reg” to me.  Like that did any good.  I would suggest anyone who is concerned about this contact AOPA or the FAA for clarification.  . 
     
    The key part of this I read is that a flight instructor “must hold an instrument rating on his or her pilot certificate and flight instructor certificate that is appropriate to the category and class of aircraft used for the training provided.  The most important part being “and flight instructor certificate.”   
     
    When a CFII receives their Flight Instrument Instructor certificate prior to receiving their CFI or MEI there is no category and class of aircraft on that certificate.  Category and class (for the purpose of instruction) are only added when one receives their CFI or MEI certificates.  Therefore, an instructor with just a CFII would not be allowed to instruct since they do not have a category and class on their flight instructor certificate.
     

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  7. Wes Beard on Nov 08, 2011

    I have to disagree with Kris.  I think the regulation is pretty specific that you must have both the instrument rating and aircraft category / class on the certificate to teach instruments in either a single or multi engine airplane in flight.
     
    What caught my attention was the wording in §61.195(b) stating “in any aircraft”.  If we look up in §1.1 the definition of aircraft “means a device that is used or intended to be used for flight in the air”
     
    When we read §61.195(c) it mentions the requirement for an instrument rating appropriate to the category and class.  Looking at §61.5 we can see that an instrument-airplane rating is a category rating while and instrument-helicopter rating is a class rating.  Is it possible that this is what the regulation means?  You must have an instrument-airplane rating to teach instruments in an airplane category and another instrument-helicopter rating to teach instruments in a helicopter?
     
    What I am getting at here is that §61.195(b) makes it obligatory for the CFII to have an ASE or AME on their CFI certificate and that is “for any aircraft” in flight.
     
    I propose that a CFII only (without any category or class ratings on CFI certificate) can in fact teach in a simulator those maneuvers required by the instrument, commercial and ATP PTS.  Would I want to try this without a legal interpretation… no; but I am fairly certain the regulations would allow this.  In any regard it is an interesting point to ponder.

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  8. Kris Kortokrax on Nov 08, 2011

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    James,
    1.       1. Changes to regulations are published in the Federal Register prior to taking effect.  The text which I cited from the Federal Register published on August 21, 2009 contains the preamble and the text of the rule which became effective on October 20, 2009.
    2.      2. On page 42505 of the Federal Register there is a table which delineates the revisions made by the rule change.  There was no revision to 61.195 (b) which requires category and class on the pilot certificate and flight instructor certificate.  Revision 73 changed 61.195(c)(1)&(2) to “Establish the flight instructor qualifications for providing instrument training in flight to be a CFII in the appropriate category and class of aircraft.”
    3.      3. The FSDO read you the reg because inspectors are not allowed to offer legal interpretations.  That is the province of the attorneys in the Office of Legal Counsel.  AOPA is also not authorized to provide legal interpretations.  They can offer an opinion, which has no more legal standing than your opinion or mine.
    4.      4. Regarding category and class ratings on a flight instructor’s certificate, there are only three instrument ratings which can be issued on a flight instructor’s certificate.  Instrument-Airplane, Instrument-Helicopter and Instrument-Powered-Lift.  There are no specific “category and class” ratings for an Instrument Instructor.  Airplane and Powered-Lift are categories, Helicopter is a class.
    5.      5. The letter of interpretation only states that one cannot instruct in a multiengine airplane unless one is in possession of a Flight Instructor certificate with a multiengine rating.  It does not address single engine.
    Wes,
    I have thick skin.  No problem that you or anyone disagrees with me.  I think it’s great that we have this forum as well as others to exchange ideas.
    For our discussion, assuming a flight instructor who holds a Pilot certificate with Airplane Single Engine Land and Instrument Airplane and a Flight Instructor Certificate with only an Instrument Airplane rating; and the text of 61.195(b), which was not revised, “A flight instructor may not conduct flight training in any aircraft for which the flight instructor does not hold: (1) A pilot certificate and flight instructor certificate with the applicable category and class rating;”
    I would say that I have everything needed on my pilot certificate and that I possess the appropriate rating (in fact the only possible Instrument rating for airplanes) on my instructor certificate.  One will never receive an Instrument-Airplane Single Engine rating or an Instrument-Airplane Multiengine rating.  They don’t exist.

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  9. Kris Kortokrax on Nov 08, 2011

    Sorry about the formatting issues.  I composed in Microsoft Word and did a cut paste.  Apparently there is a problem with this.

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  10. Nathan Parker on Nov 09, 2011

    “The letter of interpretation only states that one cannot instruct in a multiengine airplane unless one is in possession of a Flight Instructor certificate with a multiengine rating.  It does not address single engine.”
     
    It does.  It says you need a class rating and presumes that the reader knows what a class rating is. 

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  11. Stefan Lauer on Nov 21, 2011

    As far as I could understand one need a CFI for the category and class he wants to teach as CFII in (for the flight portion I presume).

    But how is my case: CFI helicopter, CPL SEL with IFR SEL, addon IFR Helicopter and CFII taken in a SEL.
    Prize question: Could I now teach in helicopters???
    And then, if I add CFI SEL and MEL, could I instruct IFR in SEL and MEL as well????

    Thanks.

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  12. Kris Kortokrax on Nov 25, 2011

    Nathan,
     
    I’ve been a pilot for 41 years, a flight instructor for 25 years and have spoken English for 59 of my 61 years.  I’m quite conversant with the English language and understand what a class rating is.  I also understand what the words “appropriate” and “applicable” mean.  I’m not sure that the FAA attorney knows what they mean in the context of providing instrument instruction.
     
    I also know that there is no flight instruction required for an ATP certificate unless one fails the practical test.
     
    I also know that creditable instrument instruction can be given towards a type rating by someone who holds no flight instructor certificate at all (91K, 121 or 135 instructor as part of an approved training program).
     
    I also know that creditable instrument training can be given by a military flight instructor or a foreign flight instructor who holds no FAA flight instructor certificate (see 61.41).
     
    I also know that since an Instrument Proficiency Check is not flight training (as a flight review is), that the holder of a flight instructor certificate with only an Instrument-Airplane rating can perform the check in an airplane (single or multiengine).
     
    The interpretation authored by Ms. Moore and signed by Ms. MacPherson, was not very well thought out.  They relied solely on wording from the Preamble to a rule change which changed nothing concerning 61.195(b) and only added references to the training for commercial and ATP to 61.195(c).  There was no change to certificate requirements that had been previously stated.  They also ignored the words of John Lynch from Q&A 457 (yes, we all know that Lynch’s FAQ’s do not constitute legal interpretations):
     
    “QUESTION: What are the privileges held by a CFI – Instrument Airplane “only” (no single or multiengine rating) on his CFI with respect to instructing instrument procedures in a multi-engine airplane.  He has multi-engine rating on his commercial certificate.  Can he, while instructing instruments, simulate engine failure? Can he demonstrate VMC?  Can he simulate engine failure during takeoff prior to 50% of VMC?  Etc.
     
    ANSWER: Ref. § 61.193(f) and § 61.195(f);  Per § 61.193(f), a person who only holds a Flight Instructor-Instrument Airplane (CFII) rating is authorized within the limitations of that person’s flight instructor certificate and ratings to give training and endorsements that are required for, and relate to an Instrument‑Airplane rating.  And per § 61.195(f), in pertinent part, states a flight instructor may not give training required for the issuance of a certificate or rating in a multiengine airplane unless that flight instructor has at least 5 flight hours of pilot-in-command time in the specific make and model of multiengine airplane. These sections  61.193(f) and  61.195(f) are the only regulatory requirements that even remotely addresses your question.”
     
    I have sent an email containing my concerns to Legal Counsel and hope to have an answer sooner than the 3 years it took for my last question to be answered.
     

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  13. J mitchell on Jun 19, 2017

    Kris,

    Are you familiar with current regulation pertaining to the above discussion? Did you ever receive a response to your letter?

    What are your thoughts presently on this matter?

    Thank you!

    Jeremy

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  14. Kris Kortokrax on Mar 31, 2019

    61.195 was changed in 2018 to allow an instructor holding only an Instrument Rating on his certificate to provide instrument instruction without also holding category/class rating, except in the case of multiengine airplanes.

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