Procedure Turn Not Authorized – How do I get turned around?

9 Answers

1. 
   

   
   

   Bob Watson on Jul 05, 2011

   I’m not familiar with that airport, so I’d defer to a local pilot, but just from looking at the chart, I think it’s a case of “you can’t get there from here.” If you can’t see the airport at the MAP, you continue northwest to the hold at MERRI.
   I’m not sure why you’d want to go all the way around to try the GPS-B approach again if it didn’t work the first time. If you just want to get back to UKI, you could use the LOC RWY 15 approach (http://tiles.skyvector.com/sky/files/tpp/1107/pdf/00698L15.PDF) which you can get to from MERRI.
   If you can’t see the airport after coming back down the LOC, it’s probably time to head for your alternate.

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2. 
   

   
   

   Nathan Parker on Jul 05, 2011

   The “Procedure Turn NA” is actually redundant information.  The chart does not contain a procedure turn and therefore one is never permitted.
    
   In a non-radar environment, you could be cleared direct to GETER, followed by an approach clearance. Be aware, though, that the turn from GETER to the initial segment course is pretty steep, and TERPS assumes that you’d be making the turn from the airway.  That’s why the procedure is NA from V25 and V27.  Terrain clearance is also an issue if you short-circuit the published missed approach.  Center could give you the clearance once you achieve MIA for the area.
    

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3. 
   

   
   

   Pat Flannigan on Jul 05, 2011

   Once you go missed, ATC should vector you back to the final approach course if you intend to shoot another approach.
    
   It will probably sound a bit like this:
   “Turn left heading 180º”
   “Descend and maintain 5,000, turn left 090º, direct Hopla when able”
   “Maintain 5,000 until established, cleared GPS-B”

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4. 
   

   
   

   Kent Shook on Jul 05, 2011

   It looks like the best way to get back to the same approach sans radar would be to proceed down V27 to Mendocino, continue down V194, climb to 9,000 feet, proceed direct Santa Rosa (you do need an IFR GPS to shoot the approach in the first place, after all), and then descend via V494 northwest bound back to GETER to start over.
    
   However, that’s not very practical. It’s going to take you a fair amount of time to shoot the approach, the miss, get all the way back around, and try again – In fact, from the IAF through the procedure, back around for another try to a landing would be 139 nm, which will take over an hour in most fixed-gear singles. Bob’s advice is pretty good – Turn around and try the LOC, and if that doesn’t work it’s time to go where there’s better weather and better approaches so that you can get on the ground with fuel remaining.
    
   Also, note that this is a circling-only approach, probably due to the steep descent gradient required to get to the runway straight-in. The gradient is pretty reasonable outside the FAF, but from GOXTU to runway 33, you’d need to drop 2186 feet in 2.7 nm, or 810 ft/nm, or 1215 fpm at 90 knots GS. Since the minimums are 2540-1 1/4, realistically you’d need more than 1 1/4 mile visibility unless you circle all the way around the airport and land on runway 33.

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5. 
   

   
   

   Dave Guerrieri on Jul 05, 2011

   I suppose I should have found an airport without another approach to illustrate the point. I was trying to come up with a scenario that described an aircraft approaching an IF/IAF at an angle greater than 120 degrees.
   The real question I would like answered is whether “radar required” is implied if you are trying to intercept at an angle greater than 120 degrees from final. I would also like to know what to expect from the controllers so, if they make a mistake, I will know and can help keep us both from getting into trouble. What is the max turn-on angle a controller can give you? 120 degrees? 90 degrees? 30 degrees?
   Thanks for the great responses!
   Dave

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6. 
   

   
   

   John D. Collins on Jul 05, 2011

   First of all, radar coverage is not available according to the AFD, so a Radar Required note does not apply. This may just mean that the floor of radar coverage is above segments of the approach and you would probably not be able to get radar vectors back to GETER.  As previously stated, the Localizer approach to RWY 15 has lower circling minimums than the RNAV (GPS) – B and there is a feeder from the MAP hold.  You can get back to GETER via the airways, but to get turned around you would need to get radar vectors, given a hold, or fly a round-about route on the airways.  To get a direct-to random RNAV route back to GETER requires radar separation and would only be available if there is radar coverage at a higher altitude that you are capable of climbing to.

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7. Best Answer
   
   

   
   

   John D. Collins on Jul 05, 2011

   The TERPS used for approach design limits the turns to a maximum of 120 degrees. Approaches designed using the current criteria will have a note if the turn from an airway to a feeder route will exceed the limit.  It means that the approach is unavailable from that direction and there doesn’t have to be any way that it can be issued from that direction. Same is true for non circling areas or night restrictions or any other restriction on the approach. Sometimes vectors will work, sometimes they are unavailable.

   Vectors have no limits as to how much of a turn they can deal with as long as radar coverage is available. Controllers do have criteria when issuing vectors to final or assigning a direct-to an IF whether or not the approach has an IAF.  For RNAV (GPS) or GPS approaches, the final VTF intercept angle can not exceed 30 degrees and for a clearance direct-to an IF can not exceed 90 degrees of turn at the IF.  There are 6 rules that the controllers must follow when clearing an aircraft direct to an IF: 1) the approach must be RNAV or GPS, 2) the aircraft must have filed with an advanced RNAV equipment code such as /G, 3) radar monitoring is required, 4) the altitude to maintain until the IF must be included in the clearance, 5)  the controller must advise the pilot at least 5 NM prior to the IF to expect that they will be cleared to the IF, and 6) the turn on course at the IF can not exceed 90 degrees.

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8. 
   

   
   

   Len Laughridge on Jul 05, 2011

   The “Procedure Turn NA” note is redundant because there is no procedure turn depicted.
    
   Furthermore, the plate says “Procedure NA for arrival at GETER via v25 southbound and v27-494 southeast bound”.  So, if you are coming in from a direction where a course reversal would be necessary, the entire procedure is NA.  If you are coming in on one of those airways in the other directions, no course reversal would be necessary to join the approach at GETER.  See: http://skyvector.com/?ll=38.896411283411275,-122.98192059748462&chart=402&zoom=2&plan=F.K2.GETER:F.K2.HOPLA:F.K2.ILABE:F.K2.AJXOX:F.K2.GOXTU
    

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9. 
   

   
   

   Andy Neumann on Jul 11, 2011

   Sometimes it helps to think outside of the box in situations like this.  Let’s say we were coming down V25 from the north (or approaching GETER from a weird angle) and we really wanted to do this approach.  What would I do?  I would ask the controller if I could hold at a safe altitude south of GETER.  For starters, what’s the MEA for V25 south of GETER?  You enter the hold and ta-da, you are now heading in the right direction.  The key is to get clearance from ATC to do this.  Radar is not required to issue you a hold, and they should have all the information to keep you out of the terrain and out of other airplanes’ flight paths.  You might be held up at 9000′ MSL while you do this, but as soon as you pass GETER inbound and are cleared for the approach, you have 15 miles to come down to 5000′ MSL, which is doable.

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