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9 Answers

Currency concern

Asked by: 5310 views Commercial Pilot

I am a commercial multi-engine pilot with instrument rating.  I have a current medical and BFR.  I have previously received training in a specific turbojet aircraft (SIC) but am not current.  Here are my questions:  1. For Part 91 flight operations what do I need to be current and qualified as a Second-in-command in this turbojet aircraft type?  2. If I am current in a complex multi-engine aircraft already what do I need to be qualified in the turbojet aircraft?  3. If all I need is (3) take-offs and landings while flying with a current qualified PIC in the aircraft and a mechanic is onboard, does he count as a crewmember (not required) or a passenger?

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9 Answers



  1. Wes Beard on May 16, 2011

    The criteria to act as a second in command is listed in §61.55.  Basically, you are required to become familiar with the aircraft systems in the turbojet in question.  You do not need three takeoff and landings or a high altitude, complex, or high performance endorsements.
     
    There is no need to have recency of experience requirements in the turbojet as you are not  the pilot in command.  Since you are not rated in the aircraft, flying with a current and qualified pilot in command does not allow you to log anything in your logbook.  You don’t meet the criteria listed in §61.51.
     
    If the pilot in command is also a CFI with the appropriate ratings (AME and IA) they can sign your logbook as an instructor and you can log dual given and total flight time.

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  2. Kent Shook on May 18, 2011

    Wes,
     
    I’m not sure I understand where you’re coming from WRT logging the time. It appears that Michael meets the requirements to log it as SIC time under 61.51(f)(2) (note the “or” at the end of (f)(1), since he meets (f)(2) he doesn’t need to meet (f)(1)).
     
    I don’t think the described situation of getting three takeoffs and landings and engine-out procedures as sole manipulator required to act as SIC under 61.55(b)(2) can be done with a mechanic on board, either – Since Michael is self-described as “not current” (which I assume to mean he hasn’t done the required items under 61.55(b) in the last 12 calendar months), he cannot act as SIC except under 61.55(g) or 61.55(h) which both require that “(2) No person or property is carried on board the aircraft, other than necessary for conduct of the flight.” The mechanic is not necessary for conduct of the flight.

     

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  3. Kent Shook on May 18, 2011

    Should have added to my previous post – Michael, the answers to both questions 1 and 2 can be found in FAR 61.55(b). The answer to your third question, as described in my previous answer, is “No.”
     

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  4. Matthew Waugh on May 18, 2011

    So for question 1, as previously stated, you need to comply with 61.55 (b).
     
    For question 2 – not relevant, your currency in anything else doesn’t help you meet the “type of aircraft” requirement.
     
    For question 3, I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that you MIGHT be able to carry a mechanic under 61.55(g). For example if it was a “test flight” that required a mechanic on board to diagnose something (since the reg. says “necessary for the conduct of the flight” and not “required crew member”) – but I would use that with care. I can’t see a scenario where a ferry flight with a mechanic on board makes the mechanic necessary for the conduct of the flight (he/she may be the REASON for the flight, but that doesn’t make them necessary).
     
    I’d be more than happy to stand-up and argue that position for somebody elses certificate, I’m not sure I’d be so cavalier with my own certificate, so you must make your choice.

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  5. Matthew Waugh on May 18, 2011

    Oh and of course you can log it as SIC, PROVIDING you are actually a required crew member.
     
    There are of course turbojet aircraft with the single pilot exemption and pilots with that on their certificate. If you’re in one of those planes, with a pilot who is single pilot current, under Part 91 you can not log it, because you are not a required crew member. There is of course the Part 135 loophole about auto-pilots, but thats got a whole different set of training requirements.

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  6. Wes Beard on May 18, 2011

    Yup.  You’re right.  You can log SIC time if you are a required crew member.  I was thinking along different lines before.  It’s good to have discussions.

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  7. Michael Slater on May 31, 2011

    Thanks so much for all of the feedback, guys.  Question for Wes… you said “You do not need three takeoff and landings or a high altitude, complex, or high performance endorsements.”  Does “high altitude endorsement” cover RVSM airspace?  Thanks again for all of the input.

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  8. Kent Shook on Jun 01, 2011

    Michael,
     
    The high altitude endorsement is required for you to be pilot in command of a pressurized airplane capable of operating above FL250 – See FAR 61.31(g). 
     

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  9. Wes Beard on Jun 01, 2011

    Michael,
     
    I don’t know if the SIC must comply with the RVSM requirements or not.  There are specific references to RVSM in the regulations.  91.180 and Part 91 Appendix G has the regulations and this FAA RVSM website.
     
    http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ato/service_units/enroute/rvsm/documentation/#reg
     
    From what I know about RVSM, there are requirements to make sure the aircraft pitot/static systems are working correctly for each pilot.  There are also contigency plans if some equipment goes wrong in RVSM airspace along with special pilot controller terminology.  My best bet is you need to have RVSM training but cannot find anything to support what my gut tells me.

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