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11 Answers

List of ILS Approaches for Aircraft Without DME, ADF, or GPS

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My aircraft is a Cessna 172D with a single Nav Radio, ILS, and Mode C Transponder w/ADS-B out. I DO NOT have a DME, ADF, or IFR certified panel GPS.

I need to find a list of ILS approaches in the United States, specifically Texas, that I can execute with my limited equipment.

Please advise.

 

 

11 Answers



  1. Mark Kolber on Jul 09, 2023

    I don’t know how to get a list of those which do not have an ADF, DME or GPS required. Best I can suggest is the Advanced search on the FAA’s IFP Gateway. Pull up the ILS approaches in an area and browse.

    I think you’ll find that in many cases, DME is only required for the LOC, not the ILS. The MON concept practically requires “clean” ILS approaches in order to work with modern aircraft. But as you noticed, you need to search to find them.

    As you no doubt found, your options with your equipment are very limited. I flew an airplane for several years with your equipment. Decided it was not practical for real IFR flight. That was 15 years ago before the plethora of RNAV (GPS) approaches appeared. The limitation is far more significant these days and affects both choice of destination and availability of alternates.

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  2. John D Collins on Jul 09, 2023

    The MON (Minimum Operational Network) program that reduces the total number of VOR throughout the NAS provides a list of airports that have IFR approaches that only have dependency on VOR or ILS. They are intended to be used if there is a GPS outage or an aircraft has a GPS failure or isn’t equipped with a GPS. A MON airport is intended to be available within 100 NM of any point in the NAS.

    On the IFR low enroute charts, these airports are designated as MON airports and have a block of Green background with white text “MON”. An example in Texas is KGLS Galveston. You can find a list of the airports in the Chart Supplement. I also made a map overlay that highlights where the MON airports are located. If you have ForeFlight, the overlay can be turned on, making it easy to locate the nearest MON airport.

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  3. MartinRanch on Jul 09, 2023

    Thank you for the valuable insight. Based on the chart supplement data, KMWL (Mineral Wells, TX) is MON airport with an ILS approach.

    Here’s where it gets tricky…

    KMWL ILS or LOC RWY 31
    The notes section states “DME required,” however, my research indicates that the DME restriction only applies to the LOC RWY 31 approach and NOT the ILS RWY 31 approach.

    My understanding is that my airplane, without GPS/ADF/DME, still legally qualifies for the ILS portion of this dual approach chart as the “DME required” doesn’t apply to the ILS approach.

    I am basing a large portion of my assumption from this article at Plane And Pilot Magazine…

    https://www.planeandpilotmag.com/article/why-would-you-need-both-gps-and-dme/#:~:text=If%20you%27re%20flying%20the,you%20may%20ignore%20that%20note.

    My next question has several parts…

    1. Can I legally use the KMWL ILS or LOC RWY 31 approach to qualify as the precision approach for an IFR checkride with a DPE?

    2. If so, to defend my argument, what is the specific FAR regulation to support my position that the “DME required” doesn’t apply to the ILS?

    3. With dual ILS or LOC approach plates, can I assume the “DME required” should be disregarded for every ILS portion of any dual approach plate?

    Thank you, in advance, for your expert opinion.

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  4. Best Answer


    John D Collins on Jul 09, 2023

    I would agree with the article. The FAA guidance in 8260.19 on charting the notes has changed over time. Each chart is developed with the FAA guidance in effect at the time and updated to later guidance only when the chart is reviewed. The new guidance is not always used for quite some time before the order expects it to be used. The current guidance in 8260.19J says “Equipment requirements note: “DME Required For LOC Only.” (i.e., LOC procedure published on the same chart with an ILS and DME is required for defining the FAF).” If you are looking for a regulation, you won’t find one, but it should be obvious in this case that the note only applies to the Localizer procedure as all of the segments on the ILS procedure don’t use the DME from procedure entry to missed approach.

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  5. Jeff Baum on Jul 09, 2023

    If you are concerned if the DPE would have an issue with your Avionics setup and a specific IAP, the best suggestion I have is call them. Getting into an argument during a checkride rarely goes well. I’d much prefer that an applicant and I have an understanding than have a potential issue arise. It’s always far better to have a calm conversation about something like this PRIOR to the checkride.

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  6. MartinRanch on Jul 09, 2023

    John…Thank you again for your thorough responses. Most appreciated 🙂

    Jeff…

    I agree with your comment. My brother is about to schedule his checkride in Waco TX, and we wanted to know the FAR regs regarding this issue prior to discussing with the DPE.

    What would your position be on this matter if you were qualifying this aircraft for an IFR check ride?

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  7. John D Collins on Jul 10, 2023

    I also agree with Jeff that you should discuss with the DPE to avoid any issue. I sent an inquiry to the FAA at https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/aeronav/aero_data/Aeronautical_Inquiries/

    I said:

    The approach chart for Mineral Wells (KMWL) ILS or LoC RWY 31 has the equipment note “DME required”. 8260.19J says in 8-6-9. Equipment Requirements Notes, a. Conventional approaches. (c) “DME REQUIRED FOR LOC ONLY” (i.e., LOC procedure published on the same chart with an ILS and DME is required for defining the FAF).

    The note now reads as “DME required.”, but according to current guidance should read as “DME REQUIRED FOR LOC ONLY.” The only usage of I-VMH DME is for the Localizer procedure to identify the FAF at CUTIS and the MAP at the threshold.

    This note was introduced in 8260.19H dated 07/20/2017. The airport is also designated as a MON airport and although the VOR RWY 31 would qualify the airport for the MON designation, the option to fly the ILS Rwy 31 procedure is an important safety advantage as a backup to a GPS outage and/or to aircraft that are not GPS equipped.

    It would be helpful if a NOTAM could be issued to update the equipment required note.

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  8. Jeff Baum on Jul 11, 2023

    Once again, this is why I consider John as one of THE experts on TERPS and IFR procedures. When I have a question, I read his old posts and usually find the answer.

    Having now read the pertinent parts of 8260.19J and reviewed the chart I would accept that the ILS may be flown using a basic IFR instrument package. The DME is only necessary for the intermediate fixes of the LOC Only Approach. All elements of the ILS are determinable using just a VOR, stopwatch (to remain within 10NM of MQP), ILS receiver with CDI, and an altimeter.

    Some DPEs may not accept this interpretation as the guidance in 8260.19J could be, as John’s note to the FAA ATC branch points out, taken the other way. The local FSDO may interpret 8260.19J in the manner which John describes, or they may interpret it the other way. The DPE is governed by the ACS, the FARs and their managing ASI and the FSDO.

    I go back to my earlier statement, contact the DPE and explain the concern. They may accept this interpretation. Discuss, calmly, the FAA guidance and how that guidance can be used for this IAP. I’d appreciate the call, gives me a chance to amend my “plan” if needed and I’d consider the applicant to be very well prepared for their checkride. DPEs usually have a plan for their various checkrides using nearby IAPs. They know where they have alternative IAPs should they run into a problem.

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  9. Jeff Baum on Jul 11, 2023

    Oops, I left out, “and the Missed Approach Point”

    It should read, “The DME is only necessary for the intermediate fixes and the Missed Approach Point of the LOC Only Approach.

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  10. John D Collins on Jul 20, 2023

    The FAA responded to my inquiry:

    FAA Response:

    You are correct. The chart note should read DME REQUIRED FOR LOC ONLY. A P NOTAM project will be generated to get this correction published as quickly as possible.

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  11. MartinRanch on Jul 29, 2023

    Thanks to everyone who contributed to assisting with this thread. Shared information from knowledgeable experts reassures my piloting abilities, and this particular IFR approach discussion thoroughly enhanced my learning experience. Many thanks 🙂

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