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Ohio State University senior was just told the school has too many aviation students and he can’t continue – Help with next steps!

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Commercial Pilot, FAA Regulations, Flight Instructor, Student Pilot

My son is attending Ohio State University, part 141 school, he transferred from Nebraska State University at Omaha's commercial aviation program and has been told by the university they have too many aviation students and cannot accommodate them all in the OSU commercial aviation program without massive delays to their graduation dates as they don't have the planes/instructors needed (wish they would have said something before he transferred to OSU).

My son will have his private certificate (about 45 hours) from his flying club as soon as the FAA gets around to taking him up, the flight has been canceled twice so far due to weather, and he has his class 1 medical signed off.  Other than coursework, he has not really done anything through his university and has not yet begun his instrument or commercial classes nor have any flight hours towards these certifications.  I guess he really is not committed to OSU for flight and can freely change over to another Part 141 or Part 61 school without any flight time loss.

He is a senior at OSU and would like to eventually fly for AA so it seems the Piedmont cadet program is the best path towards that goal. 

The questions are as follows:

  1. Do we have him continue with his aviation degree, without flight training, from OSU and earn the instrument and the commercial aviation portions someplace else?
  2. Is there a benefit to finding a Part 141 school at this point, or would a Part 61 school be just fine since the cadet programs, at least Piedmonts, appear to be open to pilots once they get around 500 hours of flight time.
  3. Do the major carriers really care about his “aviation” degree or are they so in need of pilots today that they don’t care what’s on his university degree and would be just as happy with hiring an international studies major that has his flight certifications?
  4. Do the major carriers pay more for pilots with Aviation degrees, do they get placed on a different track, or is the system paying and treating everyone equally that enters the program at the same time?

I'm sure there is a clear and obvious answer to our problem, we just are not plugged in enough to know the best way to proceed and would appreciate any direction you guys could offer.

Thanks

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4 Answers

  1. Best Answer


    Jeff Baum on Apr 09, 2022

    I’ll take a stab at this. I had been involved in the hiring process with three carriers conducting Sim Checks and Captain Board Interviews. I recently retired from American so haven’t followed the latest trend. But I don’t think that there’s been much change.

    1) This depends more on his completed course work and the degree requirements. Will OSU accept the required certificates/ratings from another flight training program? Some schools won’t. Could he look at a non-pilot Aviation Degree (say, Aviation Business Management)? By the way, while a BS/BA is definitely preferred by the airlines and will improve one’s chances of getting “the Call”, there is no requirement for 4 year degree at many carriers.

    2) As to 61 vs 141, the airlines don’t really care. They are interested in the applicant having the required certificate/ratings/endorsements and experience. All of my pre-airline training was Part 61. Part 141 schools offer a somewhat lower time requirement, and a very structured program. Part 61 can offer a greater variety of experiences during the training. But the training tends to be less structured. Once completing either 141 or 61 the FAA certificate says “Commercial Pilot”, not “Part 141 Commercial Pilot”. When I was involved in interviewing I never asked, “Part 141 or 61?” It doesn’t matter.

    3) The airlines are rarely concerned with an “Aviation Degree”. They are more interested in the applicant’s overall education and level of experience. Most airline pilots whom I’ve know do not have an Aviation Degree. I saw far more engineering, accounting, mathematics and other degrees. My degree was in nursing. I was hired with an ATP, 7,000 TT with aviation management experience, plus time as a commuter Airline Instructor and as a Check Airman. For the most part, the name of the school or the major doesn’t matter much. Attending a particular school might get an applicant a bit more notice if one of the people in the hiring process attended the same school… maybe. I never saw that a particular school or program was given preference. Great for a talking point during the interview, but other than that, for the most part it doesn’t matter.

    (Now, the Cadet Programs associated with a Carrier will make a difference with that carrier).

    4) Airline pay is based on… A) Longevity (based on hire date) B) Position (Captain or First Officer) C) Aircraft being flown D) International vs domestic and, E) the hours flown per month.

    People with an “Aviation Degree” do not get “slotted better”. Nor does; having previously flown a 747; a 24 year military career; having been an astronaut (not kidding); or being the best friend of the Chief Pilot. “Seniority Rules All”. The new pilot is issued a Seniority Number based on their Date of Hire and their age on that date of hire. If the new hire class has 30 people in it, everyone is ranked by age and that determines their seniority within the class. If you’re the 23rd oldest pilot in your class, you’ll be the 23rd highest number in you class. The oldest pilot in the next class will still be junior to everyone in the proceeding class. As pilots whom are more senior retire, every pilot moves up in seniority. Seniority Numbers are typically updated once or twice a year (At AA Seniority Numbers are updated on July first each year). Seniority is what one uses to make their Seat, Aircraft and Base decisions. This becomes something like: DFW based, A320, First Officer, International Division which is then is used by the pilot to bid for their monthly schedule. The more senior, the more choices of bases, aircraft which seat and schedule. Everyone starts at the bottom of the Seniority List regardless of background, experience or education.

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  2. NewAviator in school on Apr 09, 2022

    Jeff,

    Your answer was perfect and has allowed my son to plot a new course and continue the journey of becoming a commercial pilot. He will be switching his major from Aviation to World Politics at OSU and going Part 61 via a local flight club. He’ll also, based on your advice, try to secure some part time employment at an aviation based business, doing anything to get near planes, at the OSU or Columbus Ohio airport.

    Once he receives his instrument and commercial certifications, he will earn his hours, like everyone else, and plans to enter Piedmont’s Cadet program at 500 hours.

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  3. Jeff Baum on Apr 10, 2022

    One piece of advise if your son is going to change majors. Consider a degree program which he will enjoy and one which will be usable if the aviation field doesn’t work out. From what the colleges and the internet indicate, you’d think that anyone with an ATP and a pulse can be in the front seat of a 737. While the demand for qualified pilots has rarely been higher, not everyone gets hired. Not everyone gets through initial training or the probationary year. Of my interview group of 20, only 2 of us were hired. Also, the airline lifestyle isn’t for everyone.

    In High School, I wanted to study aviation, but studied nursing instead. I was a paramedic at 18 (and CFI) and figured if I didn’t get the breaks in aviation, there would always be a need for a Nurse/Paramedic. And maybe I could go to medical school. I enjoyed the medical field, but loved flying. It worked for me, but I always had that backup plan.

    Good luck to your son.

    Jeff

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  4. NewAviator in school on Apr 10, 2022

    Jeff, that’s exactly the plan, and why he will not complete an aviation degree from OSU. He is interested in the major he is changing to, and if aviation does not work out as planned, there is a career path he can pivot to.

    2 out of 20 for your interview group seems VERY low, I imagine these days the ratio is much more tilted towards hiring.

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