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9 Answers

What constitutes a “reasonable rental checkout” experience for a PPL looking to rent a 150/152/172?

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Flight Instructor, General Aviation, Private Pilot, Student Pilot

 

Open Question: What constitutes a “reasonable rental checkout” experience for a healthy PPL with a Class 3 Medical looking to rent a VFR only, steam gauge, carbureted, fixed pitch, fixed gear Cessna 150 or 172 ? I'm looking for general comments and perspectives, and not exact answers as it clearly is not that sort of question.

As I complete more and more rental checkouts for aircraft at different flight schools, I've had the occasional "joy" to encounter a checkout that involved several hours of ground "training", hour+ preflight, and you get the idea.

Assume the PPL renter has previous 150 and 172 time, no instrument rating, but is currently renting/flying similar planes, just at different nearby schools. Also assume we are talking about Mr./Ms. Average Pilot here, a reasonable stick, but not Amelia E. or Charles L. If a renter has already logged 100+ hours in a C-150, might say 6 hours of check out time suffice to cover things? Comments?

Clearly different schools may have different techniques and approaches. I am simply asking what’s reasonable to expect for a rental checkout, not a final stage check for a DPE Checkride & Oral for a Commercial.

Yes, we all agree that we want to be safe, and it is important to ensure that a renter can demonstrate aeronautical knowledge and piloting skills that meet a certain threshold. The reason for posting this thread is that I recently had a situation which differed from my other previous rental checkout experiences.

I enjoyed learning from new instructors, and did not want to be rude by making any comments; it's a delicate balance.  I'm not in anyway angry or disappointed. I am just trying to get a better handle on the rental checkout process. I figured this forum would be an ideal place to post this open question. Hopefully this thread can help others facing the same situation.

In the final analysis, I  know I can always vote with my feet and continue to rent elsewhere.

 

 

 

 

 

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9 Answers



  1. Russ Roslewski on Apr 02, 2022

    I don’t think I’ve ever spent more than an hour for a rental checkout in a model I’m already familiar with. Granted, I haven’t rented in several years, and insurance has changed in that time, but still, a basic plane like that? Maybe a checkout quiz on speeds and other basic knowledge, and a flight with a few maneuvers and landings, and that’s about it.

    But 6 hours in a 150 for someone who already has enough 150 time to be insurable and proficient? Yeah, that’s either excessive or the pilot really isn’t as proficient as they think.

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  2. John D Collins on Apr 02, 2022

    My experience is similar to Russ. An hour or so, a couple of takeoffs and landings that are never in any doubt as to outcome, steep turns and maybe a stall recovery. Remember, you are only required to have three hours of dual in the last 60 days in preparation for the practical test. An instructor should be able to determine in relatively short order if a pilot is competent or needs some remedial training. 6 hours is multiple flights, probably over multiple days and is excessive if the pilot is performing at private pilot standards.

    On the other hand, insurance companies can require pilots to have extensive training before solo in their own “new to them” aircraft before they will insure them for solo flight. I am doing a checkout in a F33A Bonanza and the insurance company requires 20 hours and 20 takeoffs/landings before solo.

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  3. awair on Apr 02, 2022

    It will obviously depend on the recency and proficiency of the pilot, but in “the good old days”…

    The club owner would just ask me to take someone on “a couple of circuits…”, and that would suffice for a known pilot who hadn’t flown for a while or was trading up to a 172 (from the 152). In those days nothing was legally required in the UK. No differences training.

    For new to the club, typically 0.7 to an hour was considered appropriate.

    Here in the US, returning to GA after a long break, I was expecting longer but the CFIs have typically run to about an hour, including steep turns, stalls and 3 landings. If you’re taking longer then something is not right…

    Fly safe

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  4. awair on Apr 02, 2022

    However, I do recall one individual who was asked to get some more refresher training, after the first hour was not satisfactory.

    I don’t know if he ever came back, used a different instructor, or simply gave up. His landings were at a pre-solo standard and couldn’t be corrected in the booked session.

    The UK at the time had quite a mix of students: very few youngsters heading to the airlines, but students of all ages, mostly having made some money over the long or short term, and fancied flying.

    It wasn’t as affordable as the USA, and after achieving their PPL in typically 6 weeks to 6 months, many would just drift away and fail to meet the 5 hours in 13 months required to keep the license.

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  5. Mark Kolber on Apr 02, 2022

    The most detailed rental checkout I have received in a known airplane (among many) was when I tried to rent but didn’t have my logbook. It was a long written quiz based on the FAA’s “Know your aircraft” form and a flight review endorsement. It was 1.1 flight time including hood work. So I would go with the others who said 1 to 1.5 in the airplane for a proficient pilot.

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  6. PedroThePilot on Apr 02, 2022

    Thank you all for your many comments reflecting surely decades of experience.

    My thoughts are:

    I know that Flight School Insurance Requirements may drive the need for a more extensive rental checkout.

    Flights in complex airspace with Class B shelves, etc. could extend things a bit.

    Complex or TAA aircraft may warrant more time for less-experienced renters.

    Technique differences among flight schools in how to do pre-flights, communicate with ground control, etc. may warrant some explanations and additional training. Again, I am referring to nuances in technique, not differences in the fundamentals.

    And to be fair, perhaps at times a renter may present totally unprepared, wherefore additional time and training are needed to complete the check out. After all, it’s about safety.

    As a result of my experiences, I now only use the EXACT checklist provided by the renting school. I do not bring any other checklists for the identical year and model aircraft which I used when renting at other schools.

    But as mentioned in my initial post, I am referring to a rental check out for an average PPL with previous experience in type in run of the mill 172/150 aircraft. This is not about TAA, injected, constant speed, exotic, or multi STC’d planes.

    So, to help prepare for additional future rental checkouts, in summary:

    • Demonstrate good radio skills at towered/non-towered
    • Acceptable slow Flight, power on/power off stalls, and steep turns.
    • Perform normal, short field, soft field take off & landings, and go arounds.
    • Show engine out procedures.
    • Complete the specific written rental checkout exam.

    From the comments so far, apparently sometimes not ALL of these maneuvers need to be demonstrated. I personally don’t mind time in the air; I am always learning.

    Again, I am just looking for tips to make any future rental checkouts go more quickly. I want everything to proceed safely while hopefully minimizing what at times strike me as excessively long preflight activities. .

    Maybe if I wore a Breitling watch, had a Bose Headset, and looked smarter I’d have better luck. At the moment I’m afraid I am 0 for 3 . 

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  7. Mark Kolber on Apr 03, 2022

    There’s no question that the surrounding airspace and pilot experience have independent and combined effects on the length of the checkout.

    For airspace, suppose you have always flown from nontowered airports with some experience at quiet Class Ds? You can expect a longer checkout at a busy Class D like Prescott (PRC), Van Nuys (KVNY) or Centennial (KAPA), each of which have more ops than most Class Cs.

    And a less experienced pilot may well have a longer checkout in a familiar aircraft than a mor experienced pilot in an unfamiliar one.

    But if a school is quibbling purely about a difference in preferred acceptable technique , that’s a bad thing.

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  8. Russ Roslewski on Apr 03, 2022

    Since the topic of “checkouts in complicated airspace may take longer” has come up, I’m going to pontificate a bit. Because I don’t see that that should necessarily be the case.

    The primary, almost sole reason for a rental checkout is to try to make sure you’re competent enough to not break the airplane. That’s pretty much it.

    Assuming that this is a simple rental checkout, and the checkee is otherwise fully qualified, current, etc., to be PIC, there are no FAA standards to meet, no endorsement provided, and it’s not a checkride or flight review. And although often it’s signed off as “training”, it doesn’t have to be signed off at all. The person doing the checkout doesn’t even have to be a CFI, they can just be whoever the school owner wants. Heck, it doesn’t even have to be a pilot for that matter, as long as the checkee is passenger-current.

    So with that in mind, there is no necessity for a checkout in busy airspace to take longer just because it’s in busy airspace (other than of course, waiting longer to take off and other traffic reasons). I don’t see that the FBO really has a direct concern about things like airspace violations or radio etiquette, just that the renter return the plane in good shape for the next renter.

    There may be insurance requirements to meet, of course.

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  9. PedroThePilot on Apr 10, 2022

    Russ Wrote:

    “ Assuming that this is a simple rental checkout, and the checkee is otherwise fully qualified, current, etc., to be PIC, there are no FAA standards to meet, no endorsement provided, and it’s not a checkride or flight review. “

    Thank you Russ for that comment.

    I originally posted my question because all my previous rental checkouts at other schools for Cessna 172s, Piper Warriors, and Cessna 150’s have never been quite so “involved” if that’s the right word. Therefore I was seeking feedback on what to expect “in general” on a rental check out.

    Allow me to sharer some of my recent experiences.

    So one rental checkout I completed required me to demonstrate a detailed preflight, steep turns, slow flight, power on stalls, power off stalls, simulated engine out, short field, normal, and soft field take offs & landings. That’s in addition to two hours of ground instruction. No VOR radial intercepts, no hood time, no emergency descent, and no night flying were requested. I truly enjoyed the flight, got some great flying tips, and thanked the CFI afterwards, but still….

    Russ’ comment that “…and it’s not a checkride or flight review…” keeps ringing in my mind.

    So I am now in the middle of a second rental checkout, different airplane, but same outfit. It is following the same pattern. So far I have completed one hour of ground school, and demonstrated a detailed preflight, slow flight, steep turns and all the power on and power off stalls. I have not yet returned for the all the take offs and landings, engine outs, and go around tasks.

    I consider myself an average low time pilot; perhaps safer than many others, but otherwise completely average. PPL, 180 hours, PIC current, but no longer night current because I have no need/desire to fly at night. I am not being critical of any flight school, or the standards they want to set for rental checkouts.

    A few takeaways from these rental checkride experiences include:

    • Ask the school ahead of time for a list of tasks which will be required.
    • Use the school’s checklists; best to leave other check lists at home for now.
    • Preview each required task with the CFI. My short field landing assumed an obstacle at the threshold, whereas their method was to place it at the 1000 foot mark. Techniques differ.

    Incidentally, at yet a different flight school not related to anything previously discussed, I am already checked out and current in a steam Cessna 150 and glass Cessna 172. They also have a steam (non Aerobat) Cessna 152. I have been told I need to complete another rental checkride in order to fly the 152. I would not mind say a Cessna 152 ground school session, but I am not so thrilled at having to complete yet another airplane checkride. I’ve decided to pass on the 152 for now. I confess a bit of checkride fatigue on my part. Again, I am not being critical of any flight school, or the standards they want to set for rental checkouts.

    In the final analysis we all agree it’s about safety. Fixed pitch, carbureted, steam Cessna 150/152/172s and Piper Warrior/Archers strike me as fairly average bread and butter aircraft. Whereas we all acknowledge that flying any airplane can potentially prove fatal, we are not talking Cirrus, TAA/Complex, or rocket science here.

    I hope others facing similar situations will benefit from this thread. I am sure I am not alone. In the mean time I’ll keep smiling and carry on.

    Again, thanks to Russ and the many others for all the helpful comments.

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