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11 Answers

Using my aircraft for time building – can I charge

Asked by: 4186 views FAA Regulations

I’m a CFII but not getting hours.

If a find someone to build time with what am I allowed to charge though and how do we log it. I’m assuming that I would only be flying with someone that has at least their private. Would $50 an hour be acceptable? That would cover fuel, Ramp fees, oil, and build a fund towards the annual and engine overhaul.

thank you,

fly guy

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11 Answers



  1. flyguy on Dec 07, 2021

    Also, interested in thoughts on what we each can log? I don’t plan on being an instructor per se during these flights.

    Thank you

    Fly guy

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  2. Mark Kolber on Dec 08, 2021

    First, since. You say you will *not* acting as an instructor on these flights, I will disregard your CFII. You are just another pilot exercising private privileges. I am also not considering how any of this will go over with your aircraft insurer.

    The second question is the easy one.
    . Each can log the time they are the sole manipulator of the flight controls.
    . Each can also log the time they act as a 91.109(b) safety pilot while the other pilot is under the hood. The safety pilot may log PIC if acting as PIC; log SIC when not acting as PIC.
    That\’s the universe of logging in your scenario.

    Your first question is more difficult to answer without a lot of extra information. But for some general principles…
    . You cannot charge for transportation (commercial pilot checkride scenarios #1). IOW you can\’t charge them for being a passenger.
    . The FAA does not regulate pure rentals, but that doesn\’t sound like it will help much since you are trying to build time.
    . In the safety pilot scenarios, basically, the FAA doesn\’t care how the two pilots choose do divide the costs between them. See the 2012 Roberts interpretation
    https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/interpretations/Data/interps/2012/Roberts%2C_Andrew_2012_Legal_Interpretation.pdf
    . There is traditional 61.113 expense sharing where you and someone else choose a location where you both want to go and share the costs. Just don\’t let it start quacking like transportation pretending to be something else.

    You might also look at last year\’s AC 61-142 on sharing expenses to see if it gives you any ideas.
    https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_61-142.pdf

    Of course, your biggest issue with charging anything is likely to be the other pilot saying, \”what am I getting?\” I certainly wouldn\’t let you charge me for being your safety pilot. Heck, I\’m doing you a favor. I might want to charge you!

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  3. Kris Kortokrax on Dec 08, 2021

    What would your typical flight look like?

    If you act as safety pilot for your Private pilot customer, you could not log any cross country time, you could only log PIC time while the Private pilot is under the hood (not during start, taxi out, runup, takeoff, landing, taxi in, shutdown).

    If you were to act as a flight instructor for the other pilot, you would have to actually teach him something. You cannot log PIC, based on 61.51(e)(3), unless you teach the other pilot something. Otherwise, you are not conducting flight instruction. If the other pilot is working toward an instrument rating, as a CFII, you could provide instruction toward an instrument rating. However, if you are providing instruction in an aircraft which you provide, you would need a 100 hour inspection per 91.409(b).

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  4. Russ Roslewski on Dec 08, 2021

    A few thoughts:

    – Why wouldn’t you plan on being an instructor? It seems like, if you’re a CFII, you should be looking for clients, not doing some weird “I’m just a safety pilot, not a CFI” arrangement. I do a whole lot of flying, as a CFII, with aircraft owners in their own airplanes.

    – Depending on when your last annual is, your 100-hour may not be due for a while (Remember, you don’t have to have a 100-hour inspection done in the previous 100 hours, you have to have a 100-hour OR an annual inspection).

    – What kind of plane are you flying where $50/hour covers gas, oil, AND annual/engine reserve? I assume an LSA or similar type airplane.

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  5. flyguy on Dec 08, 2021

    Kris,
    Whichever of us is under the hood can log xc though, right? I’m thinking we’ll each be under the hood 50% of the time and I’ll spend enough time under to get my xc time.

    I don’t want to teach because then you get into cfi insurance the 100 hr inspections and downtime. I just want to build the time ASAP.

    Russ,
    As I said above I just want to get the hours.

    We’ll be in an old plane and you’re right $50 isn’t enough to cover everything but I’m not really sure what I can charge and what the market will bear. I can’t remembering but I think he/she has to split costs?

    Thank you both for the help. Cheers
    fly guy

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  6. Kris Kortokrax on Dec 09, 2021

    The Gebhart interpretation covers logging in this scenario.

    https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/interpretations/Data/interps/2009/Gebhart_2009_Legal_Interpretation.pdf

    The Hilliard interpretation specifically addresses two pilots switching roles during a particular leg of a flight and says essentially that in order to log cross country time, one pilot must fly the entire leg.

    https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/interpretations/Data/interps/2009/Hilliard_2009_Legal_Interpretation.pdf

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  7. Mark Kolber on Dec 11, 2021

    Kris, I accidentally hit the thumbs down. It was supposed to be thumbs up.

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  8. flyguy on Dec 12, 2021

    Hi Kris,
    Yup, only one can log xc, they must be under the under the hood after TO, sole manipulator of controls and safety pilot can log all but 0.2 as PIC and cannot xc time. No switching roles until landing from the xc flight or else it’s no longer a xc.

    Does anyone have an issue with me asking for $50-70/hr to the help cover costs?

    Still thinking about using my CFII but then I think about the 100hr and insurance.

    Thank you
    FlyGuy

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  9. Mark Kolber on Dec 18, 2021

    >>Does anyone have an issue with me asking for $50-70/hr to the help cover costs?

    I’m going to take a step back. If you are the one acting as the safety pilot, then you are in effect renting the airplane to the flying pilot. No 100 hour is required. Basically, FAA doesn’t care about that. Your insurance might or might not. Many policies permit rentals to a small defined group. As always, check your policy.

    If the other pilot is the safety pilot, remember that in order for them to log PIC, they must be acting as PIC. You mentioned insurance as an issue if acting as a CFI. How about insurance as an issue if you turn the full command responsibility over to your safety pilot? If you are going to remain PIC, then the best they can log is SIC (and for now, can’t be BasicMed.

    $50-$70 per hour? If I’m doing the flying, sure. If I’m just safety piloting, not likely I would be willing to pay a penny unless you were flying a TBM and I could log flight time in something really cool!

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  10. flyguy on Dec 21, 2021

    Hi Mark,
    I’m just talking about mutually beneficial time building, with one under the hood and the other a safety pilot and what they’re allowed to pay. I need total time they need xc or vice versa.

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  11. Mark Kolber on Dec 22, 2021

    I think the permutations and the FAA’s view of two pilots contributing to the cost of a flight in which both log time have been covered.

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