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6 Answers

Recreational Pilot Endorsement for new departure airport

Asked by: 2614 views Flight Instructor, General Aviation

This identical question was asked before but the recreational pilot seemed to imply in his question he was moving from one state to another. The consensus was he did, in fact, need to get a new endorsement for that new departure airport.

In my case, I am training at one airport now but would like, in the future, to move my plane to an airport closer to my home. The same state and less than 20 miles from the current airport and one I will have frequented many times by then.

Would this move still require a new endorsement?

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6 Answers



  1. Mark Kolber on Aug 20, 2020

    I don’t think there’s a clear answer to this, so I would play it safe and get the endorsement. Combine it with a flight review or checkout (if you are renting).

    Here’s the problem. Whether it makes sense or not. The 61.101(b) endorsement allows you to fly withing 50 NM of the departure airport. The whole idea of the endorsement is, basically, to restrict you to a familiar area. Even if the new home base is 10 miles away from the old one, the 50 mile radius has changed to include new areas.

    IMO, a big part of the problem is, the recreational certificate is kind of the black sheep of the FAA family. Some say it is a completely failed experiment. That aside, it has been rarely used. According to FAA data, between 2010 and 2019, there were 734,885 private certificates issued, but only 1,550 recreational pilot certificates. (To compare, in that same period, there were 7,523 sport certificates issued.) The same data source indicates there were only 127 active recreational pilots in the US as of 2019..

    One big consequence is that the recreational certificate has been left behind in terms of both regulatory updates and answers to the type of questions which have come up about the privileges and limitations of other types of certificates.

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  2. stillkicking on Aug 20, 2020

    Thanks, again for taking the time to reply. Let me just add this and hope it does not sound like a rant. It’s not meant to be.

    The issue with the Recreational Pilot license has more to do with marketing on the part of the FAA than anything else. Frankly, no one has ever heard of it.

    I had not when I started down the road to my private license. It was only after many hours of dual that I found out about it on the web.

    When I broached the subject with my, then, freelance CFI, he fired me. Said he would not teach it. Had no real reason why just said he would not teach it. My feeling was, he knew nothing about it but did not want to look foolish.

    The school at the airport my plane is sitting also refused to teach it. The schools at two neighboring airports also refused. When I did find a CFI who agreed to even talk to me, he admitted he did not know anything about it but if I would get him all the information we could proceed. So I did.

    Recreational follows the exact same path in terms of flying and maneuvers as private. There is no night, no hood-work, little towered airport work, no extended cross country. However, you still need to know everything there is about flying the plane, using the radio, understanding weather theory, using charts, density altitude, etc. That does not change and you will need to demonstrate all that on the check ride.

    For me, Recreational is all I need. I’m in my late ’60’s. I will never fly at night. I don’t even like driving at night. I have no need for IFR training as my personal minimums will exclude low ceilings and my 50 mile radius (I know I can go farther with an endorsement… perhaps later on) will give me plenty of enjoyment on those early morning/late afternoon flights around my state in my little Cessna 150M.

    Note to CFI’s and flight schools… you’re missing the boat by not learning all about Recreational Pilot. Perhaps you all have more students than you can handle?

    BTW: I took the King Private Pilot ground school and passed the FAA Private written exam with a 93. I then took the Recreational FAA exam and got a 90. I also will have more than twice the number of dual and solo hours necessary to meet the requirements for Recreational by the time I take my check ride. Plus, I have two years to decide to go for full private and not have to retake the written exam again.

    I have gotten many comments about this being a back-door to getting a license. For me, it has not been. If anything, it’s the Sport license that is the back door.

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  3. KDS on Aug 20, 2020

    Recreational was the FAA’s effort to make flying more affordable. It is easy for me to sit back and criticize after the fact, but it missed the mark by a mile. It was about as useful as a whole lot of regulations on powered lift. However, it was a great lesson for them when they finally got serious with sport pilot.

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  4. Russ Roslewski on Aug 20, 2020

    stillkicking, I am glad the Recreational Pilot certificate will work for you, and good luck as your prepare for the checkride!

    I really am glad it will work for you. But I think the limitations of it rule it out for most people. Staying within 50 nm (to me) would get old pretty quickly. Yes, you can go further with additional training, but a Private Pilot would already have that. Want to attend a fly-in breakfast at a towered field? Need additional training, which a Private Pilot would already have. Want to watch the sunset? Can’t do it at all as a Rec Pilot, since you need to land by sunset. A Private Pilot could.

    I just think there is a very small percentage of people for whom the Rec Pilot cert would work. But if it does work for you, then great.

    After that, you have a bit of “chicken or the egg” scenario. Since there’s so little demand, there’s no market for training. And if there’s no market for training, there’s not going to be any creation of demand, round and around.

    Obviously I can’t say why several CFIs refused to teach you for your Rec Pilot. If I had the time, and someone came up to me looking to do it, I’d probably say yes, but I would really have to research it in depth before starting training:
    – Lacking a syllabus for it, I’d probably modify my Private syllabus. That would take some effort to be thorough. Are the standards the same? Maneuvers? I don’t know.
    – I don’t know anybody else who has instructed for one, so I have nobody to ask questions of if I want to better understand the rules, the training, the expectations on a checkride, etc.
    – When we finish, we need to find an examiner who is willing to do the checkride. Since most have never done one, we’d have to find one willing to do the research necessary to conduct one.
    – Since I’ve never trained one, I have no idea how the checkride will actually go – no “gouge” on what the examiner expects, etc. Nobody to call up and ask “hey, when he made you do stalls, did he make you….”

    I said “if I had time” I would likely take a Rec Pilot on. But if I’m working at a school where I have a steady stream of Private students, there’s really not much incentive to take on a Rec student – in fact, there’s a strong disincentive, since 1) there’s the work needed to bring me and my training materials up to speed, and 2) it will likely be for less gain (fewer paid hours). For a Private student, the school will have all kinds of training materials, a syllabus, a process that has worked, and the “corporate knowledge” of doing a million Private Pilot certs over and over again. For a Rec studnet? They have nothing.

    I would say that your statement “you’re missing the boat by not learning all about Recreational Pilot” is demonstrably incorrect, just judging by the numbers Mark posted. I can’t imagine that even if I learned all about it and marketed it aggressively, I’d really get much interest, when a few more hours for a Private certificate removes a few significant limitations, and better prepares people who may eventually want to go on to higher ratings.

    But I do really wish you the best of luck and hope you enjoy flying!

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  5. stillkicking on Aug 20, 2020

    Hey Russ.

    There’s no need to reinvent he wheel and the research has been done for you. I already did it.

    As far as a syllabus, Sporty’s has one. Their #M275A. Actually, you can just use the test standards guide the DPE will use. That would be FAA-S-8081-3A, Recreational Practical Test Standards… and that’s free as a download.

    Yep, some of the younger DPE’s will not know Rec pilot although all they need to do is get the test guide, above, and follow along. Not that big a deal. They still get their $500… just for less work : )

    As for me, I had no trouble finding a DPE that will do my check ride next month.

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  6. Russ Roslewski on Aug 21, 2020

    stillkicking – there’s a little more to being an effective CFI than just buying an existing syllabus and downloading the PTS.

    First, you cannot “just use the PTS” as a syllabus. It’s not one, it doesn’t work as one, and if I went to a CFI who just started going down the PTS for our training, I’d quickly find another CFI.

    Second, I have used several different commercially-available syllabi in my training. However, I have never once used one without significant modifications based on 1) the student’s learning style and 2) my teaching style.

    And, as I am not a DPE, I do not pretend to know how easy or not easy it is to conduct an effective checkride that you have never done before. However, I sincerely doubt that it’s just “get the test guide and follow along”. They are supposed to create realistic and pertinent scenarios to test the applicant’s knowledge and skills – if the DPE doesn’t know the rules for Rec Pilot, that’s going to be hard to do.

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