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7 Answers

Questions regarding type rating limited to SIC privileges

Asked by: 4667 views ,
Commercial Pilot, FAA Regulations

Hello Everyone,

I am having trouble understanding the concept of SIC type rating certificate and would like to ask your advice.

I am aware that in order to serve as SIC pilot in airspace outside of US, one has to be holder of SIC type rating according to FAA regulation, which is to conform with ICAO pilot type rating standards. 

What I am confused is that some say that if you have SIC, you cannot fly inside US airspace. I know this is a very basic question but can SIC type holder fly inside US airspace?

I also have few questions related to FAA regulation and the FSIMS below.

14 CFR 61.55(j) says that if the applicant for initial SIC rating receives all the training in a flight simulator, the applicant must complete one takeoff and one landing in an aircraft.

My question is, if the applicant were to receive training in part 142 training center with flight simulator, let’s say for CE-525, where and how can the applicant complete the takeoff and landing? Is there any related FAA regulations other than 61.55 or any guidance information that I can refer to?

FSIMS Vol 5 Chapter 2 Section 22, 5-2-22-9 C (Processing an Application for a Pilot type rating limited to SIC privileges with Traning conducted under 14 CFR part 142 in accordance with 61.55(i) : If an applicant show up for training at the part 142 training center already having logged one takeoff and landing in the actual aircraft, then once the training is completed at the training center, a TCE could issue the temporary pilot type rating limited to SIC privileges.

My question is, does a temporary pilot type rating have same SIC privileges as permanent type rating, (I guess not). If the applicant wants to make it permanent, what are the requirements?

These are what my colleagues and I are often confused about. 

If you could provide us the answers, it would be of great help for us. 

Many thanks in advance.

7 Answers



  1. KDS on Mar 27, 2020

    I am a little confused because of the wording in your question of can an SIC fly in the US. An airman may fly in the US as an SIC in an aircraft that requires a type rating with or without an SIC type rating, but they man not fly as PIC unless they have the full type rating.

    The people I have known who obtained SIC type ratings did the takeoff and landing in an aircraft the company they were working for owned. There are commercial training companies that will train to the standard to include the takeoff and landing. It would certainly be possible and relatively easy to obtain the needed takeoff and landing in a CE-525 even without an employer helping.

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  2. Kris Kortokrax on Mar 27, 2020

    To answer your second question, the privileges are the same regardless if you have the paper temporary certificate in your pocket or if you have the plastic permanent certificate.

    To answer a question you did not ask, you can only log SIC time. You cannot use the SIC type rating to log PIC under 61.51(e)(i) – manipulating the controls of an aircraft for which you are rated.

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  3. KDS on Mar 28, 2020

    My question is, does a temporary pilot type rating have same SIC privileges as permanent type rating, (I guess not). If the applicant wants to make it permanent, what are the requirements?

    Yes and no. Yes as far as the US is concerned, however, foreign governments will not accept it unless it is on the permanent plastic certificate. There is no action required on your part to make it permanent (i.e. get the plastic certificate). You just have to wait until it processes through Airman Registry at the FAA in Oklahoma City.

    The certificates are processed in the order of the date of issue, not the date they are received in Oklahoma City. The date of issue is the day you receive the paper temporary certificate. The amount of time it takes between when you receive the paper certificate (the temporary) and when you receive the plastic certificate (the permanent) can vary all over the place. You can call 866-878-2498 to find what date of issue is being worked.

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  4. Kris Kortokrax on Mar 28, 2020

    I’m curious as to your statement that foreign governments will not accept a U.S. temporary certificate. 61.17 does not contain a limitation for foreign use.

    Have you researched the regulations of each foreign government as to whether they accept temporary certificates?

    For example, I would not think that Canada would not accept a U.S. temporary certificate.

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  5. KDS on Mar 29, 2020

    I don’t know the detail because it didn’t have any direct impact on me. I suspect it varies by country and I would also suspect that Canada would be almost certain not to take such a position.

    I remembered reading something about it back around the time when the US began putting SIC type ratings on certificates, but couldn’t recall any details. I have tried to find something about it on the Internet, but couldn’t find a word one way or the other. Finally I asked an FAA Inspector friend if he remembered anything on that subject and he said that was correct.

    The question has been bugging me because I can’t find anything in writing and it certainly seems like it should be. I may give AOPA a call and ask that question of them. If you find something one way or another, please share.

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  6. Kris Kortokrax on Mar 29, 2020

    There is nothing in the regulation (61.17), as there is concerning temporary aircraft registrations (47.31(c)).

    There is nothing in 8900.1, Volume 5, Chapter 2, Sections 1, 5 or 22.

    The SIC type rating is a requirement for ICAO. No requirement for the U.S.

    It is inconceivable that foreign countries would not accept an SIC temporary. I’m sure that a United or American captain who adds a B-787 type rating would not be waiting 6 weeks before making a flight into a foreign country.

    The easiest thing would be to ask your inspector friend for a reference. I’d be surprised if he could find one (although I’ve been surprised before).

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  7. KDS on Mar 30, 2020

    Kris,

    I completely agree with your first three paragraphs. At least if there is anything in any government publication, I cannot find it. I also cannot find anything using Google six ways from Sunday.

    I talked with my Inspector friend at home (the FSDOs are all or almost all working from home) and while he was certain it was true; he couldn’t point to a specific document. That is not surprising because it is not part of his job to know foreign rules.

    I did hear from a fellow who started in a class of new hires for a regional carrier that flew between the US and Canada around the time when the SIC change took place. He said that he was told they would not be put on any trips into Canada until they had their plastic certificates. He did not know how that came down or if it changed later. He got a better job offer and left the class and had no more contact with the carrier.

    I called one of the FAAs International Field Offices. Not surprisingly, they were not there.

    Then I called AOPA (800-USA-AOPA). The representative said it depended on the country. I got the impression that you could call AOPA and ask if the country to which you are flying accepts or does not accept the paper certificates. Then he said that is why we always advise pilots to call and check before they fly international. I asked if he meant call AOPA and he said no, call customs. I asked him if he knew of any off the top of his head. He said he was pretty sure Mexico would require plastic and Canada would accept paper, but was not positive.

    It may very well be that Part 121 carriers have different rules in different countries. Those rules might very well be different for a Part 121 carrier and a Part 91 Gulfstream coming into the same airport. I do not know, and I am just supposing.

    I can understand why a foreign country would look askance at a paper US pilot certificate given how easy it is to counterfeit things, those paper certificates no challenge at all. Our plastic certificates even pale by comparison with some foreign pilot licenses.

    There are around 200 countries in the world and each one makes their own rules and once made, they can change the rules whenever they choose.

    Hope that helps,

    KDS

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