Welcome Guest. Sign in or Signup

8 Answers

Logbook error for IPC

Asked by: 2843 views FAA Regulations

So I’m in a bit of a dilemma with my original logbook back before I became a CFI. I took an IPC about 4 years ago at a flight school that has a red bird simulator. The correct, technical term as you all know is an advanced aviation training device, or AATD, not ‘simulator.’ But anyway, I’m not sure how I missed this, but I’m looking back through my logbooks getting ready to apply for airline jobs, and I noticed the CFI logged the IPC in the redbird, but didn’t log the airplane tasks, since we didn’t do the airplane tasks. If you take your IPC in an AATD, it clearly says in the instrument ACS for an IPC that the circling approach and landing tasks have to be accomplished in the airplane. Well, we never did anything in the airplane afterwards. At the time I didn’t know about this requirement, and just assumed he ‘knew his stuff.’ Several years later, now that I’m a CFI and am more knowledgeable than before, it got me thinking, we never did the airplane tasks, so how does this get fixed? So technically it was an ‘incomplete’ IPC. How do I go about resolving this?

8 Answers



  1. Mark Kolber on Dec 24, 2019

    You don’t resolve it because you can’t resolve it. That IPC 4 years ago meant nothing 6 months later, maybe 12 at the outside. In some situations, like you were IFR current anyway, it didn’t mean much when it was done, but I guess from your question that wasn’t the case. If your logbook were reviewed by the FAA today, it would be very unusual for it to even be noticed.

    People make mistakes. You are not the first and you won’t be the last. That was a common one. Part of the reason was the way the IPC regulation changed through the years, along with arguments about what was required. But even today people argue about exactly what is required for an IPC. I still see arguments on whether 2 or 3 approaches are required. And the FAA itself reopened the circling issue with last year’s amendment.

    So the resolution is, chalk it up to experience. Understand that pilots and CFIs, including you, are fallible.

    Go forth and sin no more. Merry Christmas.

    +1 Votes Thumb up 1 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes



  2. Russ Roslewski on Dec 26, 2019

    Mark, your statement “That IPC 4 years ago meant nothing 6 months later, maybe 12 at the outside” isn’t necessarily true. It’s only true if he didn’t keep instrument current by other means.

    For example, take the situation where he was not instrument current, then had the IPC, then stayed current through actual approaches or safety pilot use for the next four years. In that case, if the IPC was incomplete, it didn’t actually count as an IPC and therefore he has been flying for the last four years in violation of the IFR currency requirements.

    If that scenario is correct, then I agree there is nothing that can be done at this point, other than to get a (real) IPC and go forth and be current.

    0 Votes Thumb up 0 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes



  3. Mark Kolber on Dec 26, 2019

    How? Instrument currency on any particular flight only looks back six months. Perhaps you have an example with dates?

    0 Votes Thumb up 0 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes



  4. Mark Kolber on Dec 26, 2019

    Ah, I see what you mean, Russ. If the IPC was right at the 6-month point, he did 3 approaches during the iPC, and did not fly 3 actual or simulated approaches in the six months after that, he would need an IPC in order to regain currency.

    0 Votes Thumb up 0 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes



  5. Russ Roslewski on Dec 27, 2019

    Mark,
    Let’s say he got IFR rated in January of 2015. Then didn’t fly any more approaches.
    Up through the end of July 2015 he can still go out and file and fly IFR, he is still current.
    After that he can’t file IFR because he’s not current. But he could go with a safety pilot and get current, up until Jan 2016.

    But he doesn’t. He doesn’t fly any IFR, simulated or actual, for years.

    In January of 2018 he gets an IPC. He’s now current again.

    This time he decides to stay current, and does one approach and a hold every month with a safety pilot or in actual.
    As a result, he never needs to see a CFII again for an IPC. He is continually current.

    Now it’s December 2019, he is still current due to his new regimen.

    But he finds out his IPC in January 2018 wasn’t valid due to not meeting the requirements. Which means the IPC “didn’t count”. Which means he has been violating the IFR rules by flying as if he was current since then. Since 61.57d requires an IPC as the only way to get recurrent after 6 months of non-currency, he didn’t meet that requirement and has been non-current the whole time since then.

    0 Votes Thumb up 0 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes



  6. Mark Kolber on Dec 27, 2019

    I agree, Russ. If he got that IPC when was outside of the 12 month window to maintain or regain currency and never got an IPC again, he has been continually non-current since.

    In that case, my modified bottom line answer incorporates your original comment:

    Go forth, get an IPC , and sin no more. Merry Christmas.

    I’ll stick with the most of the rest of it. If the logbook were reviewed by the FAA today, it would be very unusual for it to even be noticed. And if it were, the Compliance Program has excused much more significant excursions.

    But now that you realize the error you should fix it the only way you can. Getting current with an IPC.

    0 Votes Thumb up 0 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes



  7. billy jean on Dec 27, 2019

    Thanks for the replies guys. Granted, I’m no perfect instructor myself either. I’ve had plenty of screw ups as a CFI. I’ve been at it for about 2.5 years going on 3. I just didn’t know if airline interviewers would see that and ask me about it if they noticed it. This ‘IPC’ took place in October of 15.’ I did some IFR flying shortly after that for the next 3 months, maybe like 3-4 flights where I filed a flight plan and received an IFR clearance. However I got very little actual instrument time on those flights. And I only logged one approach for the logbook. So most of it was in clear VFR weather and a million. After January of 16′, I hadn’t flown any IFR flights where I was the acting PIC until the fall of 17.’ In the summer of 17′ I had gotten ‘current’ again by doing another IPC, this time with a different instructor. That was done in an airplane. So it was about a 1.5-2 yr period we’re talking here where I was technically ‘non-current.’ However after my IPC in July of 17′ I’ve stayed current by logging the 6 approaches, etc, etc since.

    0 Votes Thumb up 0 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes



  8. Mark Kolber on Dec 28, 2019

    That IPC in 2017 was all the “resolution” you could do.

    What effect it could have during an interview is questionable. I am not in that biz but from what have heard from others, the primary goal of an employer logbook check is to confirm you are presently qualified (correct number of hours to meet FAA and employer application requirements) and to get a picture of your overall experience. It is not an effort to look back 4-5 years to see if they can find a “gotcha.” If they are looking for a gotcha, you weren’t going to get that job anyway.

    0 Votes Thumb up 0 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes


Answer Question

Our sincere thanks to all who contribute constructively to this forum in answering flight training questions. If you are a flight instructor or represent a flight school / FBO offering flight instruction, you are welcome to include links to your site and related contact information as it pertains to offering local flight instruction in a specific geographic area. Additionally, direct links to FAA and related official government sources of information are welcome. However we thank you for your understanding that links to other sites or text that may be construed as explicit or implicit advertising of other business, sites, or goods/services are not permitted even if such links nominally are relevant to the question asked.