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9 Answers

IPC – does CFII need to be PIC?

Asked by: 5638 views , ,
Flight Instructor, Instrument Rating

I have an IPC coming up this week in an RV9A, SEL Airplane, which I am clearly qualified in based on the FARs.

However, the applicant's insurance company says I cannot be PIC in that plane.

I normally insist on being PIC when giving an IPC.

Can I give an IPC where the applicant is the PIC? He is out of currency for IFR, so I'm quite sure we have to remain VFR for the IPC, but what about when he is wearing a view-limiting device? Am I required to be PIC while he is wearing it?

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9 Answers



  1. Kris Kortokrax on Oct 22, 2019

    Just curious. Why would you insist on being PIC?

    As long as you do the IPC under VFR, your client can be PIC.

    You do not need to be PIC while he is under the hood. You can be SIC, unless you are flying under Basic Med. If that is the case, you would need to be PIC while he is under the hood.

    You can also log PIC under 61.51(e)(3).

    Last, the insurance company cannot dictate who may be PIC. They may only say that the insurance coverage would not be in effect unless the owner is PIC. If anything were to happen, they would be hard pressed to prove who was acting as PIC, unless someone left a signed document stating that someone other than the owner was acting as PIC.

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  2. Russ MacDonald on Oct 23, 2019

    I like to be the PIC on an IPC ride, because if I see a traffic conflict, or other emergency, and I say \”I\’ve got it\”, there is no hesitation. I had an experience on an IPC when the owner (an ATP) insisted he would be the PIC on the flight, and told me he would not hand over the controls, because he was the PIC.

    I agree on the insurance question.

    My main concern is to make sure the PIC is clearly agreed upon prior to the flight.

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  3. Best Answer


    Russ Roslewski on Oct 23, 2019

    “I had an experience on an IPC when the owner (an ATP) insisted he would be the PIC on the flight, and told me he would not hand over the controls, because he was the PIC.”

    I find it difficult to believe that any pilot wouldn’t want the safety pilot to take the controls if they saw an imminent danger, like a mid-air collision about to happen, or the pilot is about to stall it on final or fly them into a tower. That’s the type of ego that gets people killed.

    But if they did insist, then it’s a pretty simple matter – “Thank you for calling me, but you will need to find another instructor to do your IPC.”

    I agree with Kris on the answers.

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  4. Mark Kolber on Oct 24, 2019

    Without getting into the sub discussion, the simple answer to your specific question is, assuming both are qualified to act as PIC, either the instructor or the trainee may do so. Same for the non-CFI safety pilot. Either the pilot flying or the pilot not flying may take in the PIC role.

    “Can I give an IPC where the applicant is the PIC?” Yes. BTDT.

    “He is out of currency for IFR, so I’m quite sure we have to remain VFR for the IPC” If he is PIC, that’s right. If you are PIC (and current), you don’t.

    “but what about when he is wearing a view-limiting device? Am I required to be PIC while he is wearing it?” No.

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  5. Craig on Oct 24, 2019

    My understanding is that, as a safety pilot, you basically have a choice to be the “acting PIC” or to be a “required crewmember”. Which role you play “technically” should be agreed upon prior to engine start in case anything goes wrong….

    Slightly different FARs seem to apply to both and one role allows you to log PIC time while the other does not.

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  6. Mark Kolber on Oct 26, 2019

    Craig, the FAA has specifically said what you said. In writing and consistently over the past 25 years or so.

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  7. Russ MacDonald on Oct 26, 2019

    Well, it amuses me that my question somehow morphed into one about being a safety pilot and logging second in command time. Where did that come from?

    I didn’t mention anything about being a safety pilot.

    I’m a long-time CFI-I conducting an Instrument Proficiency Check.

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  8. Craig on Oct 26, 2019

    Assuming the pilot you’re evaluating has a current BFR and is otherwise qualified he/she is the PIC and you could exercise the privileges of a flight instructor without acting as PIC.

    In this scenario, you would basically be functioning as an evaluator (similar to a BFR) and required crewmember (safety pilot while the pilot is under the hood).

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  9. Mark Kolber on Oct 27, 2019

    Russ, it’s called “thread creep.” Watch;

    You asked about being PIC on an IPC. Leads to pointing out that when your trainee is under the hood you are also acting as a safety pilot. Boom! People start talking about safety pilot rules whether or not they apply to you or your question.

    Just another quiet day in the Internet 😀

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