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4 Answers

SID w/o Transition

Asked by: 5235 views , ,
Instrument Rating

I was assigned the KNIGHTS ONE out of Charlotte (KCLT) but I was not given a transition.

Cleared KCEU
Radar Vectors KNIGHTS ONE DEPARTURE
2000 exp 4/10
120.05
5682

Shouldn't an assignment of a SID always include the transition?

 

 

 

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4 Answers



  1. John D Collins on Oct 22, 2018

    The SID ends at the common fix. Transitions are normally also used to transition to the enroute environment, but are not required. So the KNI1 SID ends at CLT. You can file the SID using the common fix or a transition fix. So KNI1 can be filed as KNI1.CLT or one of the transition fixes, example KNI1.ANDYS. If you file the charted computer code, it will be rejected as KNI1.KNI uses the fix KNI which does not exist, Most GPS systems will require the entry of a transition fix and will not directly accept the “no transition route” or common fix. To fly one of these procedures without using a transition, you must select a transition anyway and edit the resulting flight plan to match the cleared route.

    So being cleared via the Knights One without an assigned transition, is simply a vector SID with a runway assigned heading for radar vectors to the assigned enroute fix, maintain 4000 expect filed altitude 10 minutes after departure.

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  2. Stephen Kaloroplos on Oct 22, 2018

    I don\’t shy away from SIDs or STARs and never remark them out in my flight plan but it looks like I need to learn more. I never got over CLT (VOR) so I don\’t understand your statement \”SID ends at CLT\”.

    Question 1
    When assigned the KNI1 without a transition I should disregard the transition instructions and move to (2nd page) and fly the instruction as stated in the TAKEOFF RUNWAY section. Right??

    Quetion 2
    Clearance states fly the KNI1 NEANO transition. I make note of the NEANO instructions on page one and the fly via TAKEOFF instructions for 36R and expect vectors to CLT R-275 to BOBZY. Is this Right??

    Question 3
    The TOP on the KNI1 is 4000 but if I was assigned \”climb via the SID\” I assume that would only happen IF I was assigned a transition. RIght?

    Now the giant killer. The last section of the KNI1 states all the transitions BEGIN over CLT. How did I get to CLT?

    I appreciate your help because I am really confused and need help understanding.

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  3. John D Collins on Oct 27, 2018

    Question 1
    When assigned the KNI1 without a transition I should disregard the transition instructions and move to (2nd page) and fly the instruction as stated in the TAKEOFF RUNWAY section. Right??

    Yes, there really isn’t a route as this is a vector to your first enroute fix/navaid.

    Quetion 2
    Clearance states fly the KNI1 NEANO transition. I make note of the NEANO instructions on page one and the fly via TAKEOFF instructions for 36R and expect vectors to CLT R-275 to BOBZY. Is this Right??

    The route is defined from CLT VOR to BOBZY via the CLT 275 radial. You will be vectored to intercept this route somewhere along the radial. After BOBZY, the route is defined as ODF 070 radial to NEANO. You might be vectored to anywhere along the route or given direct to BOBZY or NEANO.

    Question 3
    The TOP on the KNI1 is 4000 but if I was assigned \”climb via the SID\” I assume that would only happen IF I was assigned a transition. RIght?

    No, with current guidance, the Knights One should not use a climb via clearance. Climb via is only appropriate if there is a charted crossing restriction. Although there are MEA’s on this procedure, there are no crossing restrictions charted.

    Now the giant killer. The last section of the KNI1 states all the transitions BEGIN over CLT. How did I get to CLT?

    The SID ends before the transition and with very few exceptions, all transitions are supposed to begin at a common point. CLT is the common point where all transitions begin on the Knights 1 SID. The SID does not describe a route to get to CLT, instead it describes “climb heading .. and depending on the runway, there is a minimum altitude before any turns. You are expected to get radar vectors to intercept filed/assigned transition or enroute fix/navaid. If you are unable to make radio contact for vectors, then you follow the heading and minimum turn instructions and turn to intercept the radial course emanating from CLT. You continue the climb to 4000 and after 10 minutes begin your climb to your cleared altitude.

    If you file the SID, you must always include the SID computer code name followed by either the transition fix or the common fix. So to file the KNI1 without a transition, you would file KNI1 CLT. If you lost radio contact, you would follow the NORDO instructions and at the altitude make your turn towards the first fix on your route.

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  4. Stephen Kaloroplos on Oct 27, 2018

    It is my goal to be a better IFR pilot and I appreciate your help on that journey.

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