Welcome Guest. Sign in or Signup

7 Answers

61-89(a)(8) Limitations added to Student Endorsements

Asked by: 8284 views FAA Regulations, Flight Instructor

Curious - What sort of limitations are CFIs adding to pre-solo and additional 90 day endorsements such as winds, etc?

Ace Any FAA Written Test!
Actual FAA Questions / Free Lifetime Updates
The best explanations in the business
Fast, efficient study.
Pass Your Checkride With Confidence!
FAA Practical Test prep that reflects actual checkrides.
Any checkride: Airplane, Helicopter, Glider, etc.
Written and maintained by actual pilot examiners and master CFIs.
The World's Most Trusted eLogbook
Be Organized, Current, Professional, and Safe.
Highly customizable - for student pilots through pros.
Free Transition Service for users of other eLogs.
Our sincere thanks to pilots such as yourself who support AskACFI while helping themselves by using the awesome PC, Mac, iPhone/iPad, and Android aviation apps of our sponsors.

7 Answers



  1. Brian on Jan 15, 2011

    “Must contact primary instructor, (my first & last name), before any and all solo flights.”
     
    I used to use wind and other various limitations. However, I found this to allow my students more freedom with regards to choosing personal limitations. It also served the purpose of reminding students to call me before they fly, something I requested anyway before using this wording. Finally, according to a buddy who is an aviation attorney, it might help protect your butt if they go up without contacting you and an incident results.

    0 Votes Thumb up 0 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes



  2. Matthew Waugh on Jan 16, 2011

    I disagree with the legal protection theory – if you discussed the conditions and the flight with them just prior to the flight you might be leaving yourself open to more liability, not less, however, only case law will tell us, and I volunteer not to one of the first cases 🙂
     
    I do the like the idea in terms of being able to evaluate each individual flight with the student however.
     
    I use visibility and ceiling and crosswind component limitions. I didn’t use a total wind, I figure as long as the cross-wind was low they should be able to land into a howling gale.

    0 Votes Thumb up 0 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes



  3. Brian on Jan 16, 2011

    Matthew,
     
    I’ve had students forget to contact me before flying and fly in conditions I wasn’t comfortable with. For example, I had a student take a two month break and then exercise his privileges, at the limitations I’d given, without ever calling me. Those limitations were based on the pilot being proficient — he no longer was. The legal side is particularly for protection with this scenario, with the purpose being to avoid negligence.
     
    As an instructor, it is my responsibility to know when my students are exercising privileges I’ve given them. I believe others would share this belief. Such wording as a limitation makes it clear that I wish to be part of the decision making process and am diligently trying to remain informed. Who really knows though, as you said, only case studies will prove it. 
     

    +1 Votes Thumb up 1 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes



  4. MaggotCFII on Jan 16, 2011

    Brian and Matthew – thanks for the input – hope others will participate!
    A goal here is to share and perhaps help other instructors help make this business safer for everybody.
    An endorsement that I use to help address currency, especially in the Part 61 world, which I picked-up from another instructor is:
    “For solo flight operations maintain 14 day currency; defined as 3 Takeoffs and Landings within the preceeding 14 days.”
    If the student has not flown, it is at least a dual preflight and the 3 dual T&Ls. Student performance would determine time spent.
    Some of the students we run across are full-time employed, fly once a week, are real “time-budgeters” and would think nothing of coming off a fresh 90 day not fly again for 60+ days.
    If a student flying with committment the the 14 day should not be an issue.
     
     

    0 Votes Thumb up 0 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes



  5. Wesley Beard on Jan 16, 2011

    I have always put visibility, ceiling, total wind and crosswind on the student pilot certificate.  I’ve never thought about requiring the student to call me prior to any flight and think it is a good idea.  Having a currency requirement is also a good idea.
     
    I once had a flight student who felt he could solo on a windy afternoon (just within the limitation) without anyone at the Part 61 flight school and in the process breaking school policy.  When I confronted him on his flight he wasn’t too concerned.  I told him that I didn’t have a problem ripping out the endorsement in his logbook and dropping him as a student.  He straightened up afterward.
     
    Recently, at KRYN a student pilot was on their first solo, the wind picked up on the third landing.  The pilot decided to land on the crosswind runway, stalled and landed inverted killing himself.

    0 Votes Thumb up 0 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes



  6. MaggotCFII on Jan 19, 2011

    Thanks all for the feedback. Seems in this forum and out of the forum most CFIs use some or all of the following as limitations:
    Winds/Contacting CFI/Cross Winds/Ceiling/Visability/Currency
    I also copy endorsements for my Student File.

    0 Votes Thumb up 0 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes



  7. James MacGregor CFI on Jan 28, 2011

    +1 Contacting CFI (and/or a backup CFI if I’m not avalible) covers all the weather as you can go over it with them first.

    0 Votes Thumb up 0 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes


Answer Question

Our sincere thanks to all who contribute constructively to this forum in answering flight training questions. If you are a flight instructor or represent a flight school / FBO offering flight instruction, you are welcome to include links to your site and related contact information as it pertains to offering local flight instruction in a specific geographic area. Additionally, direct links to FAA and related official government sources of information are welcome. However we thank you for your understanding that links to other sites or text that may be construed as explicit or implicit advertising of other business, sites, or goods/services are not permitted even if such links nominally are relevant to the question asked.