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7 Answers

61-89(a)(8) Limitations added to Student Endorsements

Asked by: 4698 views FAA Regulations, Flight Instructor

Curious - What sort of limitations are CFIs adding to pre-solo and additional 90 day endorsements such as winds, etc?

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7 Answers

  1. Brian on Jan 15, 2011

    “Must contact primary instructor, (my first & last name), before any and all solo flights.”
    I used to use wind and other various limitations. However, I found this to allow my students more freedom with regards to choosing personal limitations. It also served the purpose of reminding students to call me before they fly, something I requested anyway before using this wording. Finally, according to a buddy who is an aviation attorney, it might help protect your butt if they go up without contacting you and an incident results.

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  2. Matthew Waugh on Jan 16, 2011

    I disagree with the legal protection theory – if you discussed the conditions and the flight with them just prior to the flight you might be leaving yourself open to more liability, not less, however, only case law will tell us, and I volunteer not to one of the first cases 🙂
    I do the like the idea in terms of being able to evaluate each individual flight with the student however.
    I use visibility and ceiling and crosswind component limitions. I didn’t use a total wind, I figure as long as the cross-wind was low they should be able to land into a howling gale.

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  3. Brian on Jan 16, 2011

    I’ve had students forget to contact me before flying and fly in conditions I wasn’t comfortable with. For example, I had a student take a two month break and then exercise his privileges, at the limitations I’d given, without ever calling me. Those limitations were based on the pilot being proficient — he no longer was. The legal side is particularly for protection with this scenario, with the purpose being to avoid negligence.
    As an instructor, it is my responsibility to know when my students are exercising privileges I’ve given them. I believe others would share this belief. Such wording as a limitation makes it clear that I wish to be part of the decision making process and am diligently trying to remain informed. Who really knows though, as you said, only case studies will prove it. 

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  4. MaggotCFII on Jan 16, 2011

    Brian and Matthew – thanks for the input – hope others will participate!
    A goal here is to share and perhaps help other instructors help make this business safer for everybody.
    An endorsement that I use to help address currency, especially in the Part 61 world, which I picked-up from another instructor is:
    “For solo flight operations maintain 14 day currency; defined as 3 Takeoffs and Landings within the preceeding 14 days.”
    If the student has not flown, it is at least a dual preflight and the 3 dual T&Ls. Student performance would determine time spent.
    Some of the students we run across are full-time employed, fly once a week, are real “time-budgeters” and would think nothing of coming off a fresh 90 day not fly again for 60+ days.
    If a student flying with committment the the 14 day should not be an issue.

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  5. Wesley Beard on Jan 16, 2011

    I have always put visibility, ceiling, total wind and crosswind on the student pilot certificate.  I’ve never thought about requiring the student to call me prior to any flight and think it is a good idea.  Having a currency requirement is also a good idea.
    I once had a flight student who felt he could solo on a windy afternoon (just within the limitation) without anyone at the Part 61 flight school and in the process breaking school policy.  When I confronted him on his flight he wasn’t too concerned.  I told him that I didn’t have a problem ripping out the endorsement in his logbook and dropping him as a student.  He straightened up afterward.
    Recently, at KRYN a student pilot was on their first solo, the wind picked up on the third landing.  The pilot decided to land on the crosswind runway, stalled and landed inverted killing himself.

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  6. MaggotCFII on Jan 19, 2011

    Thanks all for the feedback. Seems in this forum and out of the forum most CFIs use some or all of the following as limitations:
    Winds/Contacting CFI/Cross Winds/Ceiling/Visability/Currency
    I also copy endorsements for my Student File.

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  7. James MacGregor CFI on Jan 28, 2011

    +1 Contacting CFI (and/or a backup CFI if I’m not avalible) covers all the weather as you can go over it with them first.

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