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8 Answers

Night currency

Asked by: 5560 views General Aviation

I fly King Air 200's and have NO type rating in a King Air 350. Can I sit in the right seat of a 350, manipulating he controls, and do 3 night landings to a full stop and count it as MY night currency in King Air 200's?

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8 Answers



  1. Kent Shook on Jan 06, 2011

    I believe so. From 61.57(b):
     

    “(b) Night takeoff and landing experience. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of an aircraft carrying passengers during the period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour before sunrise, unless within the preceding 90 days that person has made at least three takeoffs and three landings to a full stop during the period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour before sunrise, and—
    (i) That person acted as sole manipulator of the flight controls; and
    (ii) The required takeoffs and landings were performed in an aircraft of the same category, class, and type (if a type rating is required).”

     
    Since the King Air 200 does not require a type rating, and the King Air 350 is the same category and class (Airplane Multi Engine Land), the King Air 350 landings should count towards flying the King Air 200.
     
    However, the reverse would not be true: Since the King Air 350 does require a type rating, only King Air 350 night landings would count towards flying the King Air 350.

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  2. Don Smith on Jan 06, 2011

    I understand that answer clearly, but to refine the question a little more…How can I log the night landings at all, when I can’t even legally be manipulating the controls of a King Air 350 without a type rating or formal training…even as an SIC?

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  3. Wesley Beard on Jan 06, 2011

    Since the King Air 350 does not require an SIC per type certification my answer is you can log only your training flights in the King Air 350.   (61.51(h))  If you made three takeoffs and landing at night while undergoing training, those landings will count for your multi-engine currency per Kent’s discussion above.
     
    If you made part 91 flights with the pilot who is not providing you training then you cannot legally log anytime in the airplane.

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  4. Micah on Jan 07, 2011

    Seems like the answer to this question lies in the realm of acting PIC vs logging PIC.  You know you can’t act as PIC in the 350, but the question of logging experience for night currency does not require you to act as PIC.  It might seem cleaner to log this time as dual received, except that it might be unclear whether during this dual received time you were sole manipulator of the controls.  
     
     
    But to go back to your 2nd response, Don, why can’t you legally manipulate the controls of the 350?  If the 350 is single-pilot certified and the pilot in the left seat is appropriated typed/rated/current then that pilot acts as PIC whether you fly the entire flight.  What prohibition exists that should make you feel conflict when logging that flight time?
     
    Then again, using it for currency is a different item… which you should make sure is clear in your logbook… but I don’t know that it is absolutely inappropriate.  Remember, your logbook does not require you to define which hours you log “acting as PIC” and which are “logged as PIC.”

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  5. Kent Shook on Jan 07, 2011

    Don,
     
    I was making the assumption that you were legal to be flying the KA350 – As in, there is a qualified PIC aboard. The currency reg simply states that you must be sole manipulator of the controls. Logging experience as a non-required crewmember in a non-training situation is a different ball of wax, and somewhat of a gray area.
     
    Micah,
     
    To log PIC as sole manipulator of the controls requires you to be rated – Category, Class, and Type if applicable, which in this case it is. Since Don is not type rated in the King Air 350, he cannot log PIC.
     
    This would be an easy answer if it was dual instruction. If not, it’s not so clear. The “gray area” shows up because he cannot log PIC (not type rated), he cannot log SIC (SIC not required by type certification or regulations the flight was conducted under, presumably), and 61.51 is a bit ambiguous when it comes to just logging flight time that isn’t PIC, SIC, or dual. It might be better to ask for an FAA chief counsel interpretation on this one.

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  6. Best Answer


    Micah on Jan 07, 2011

    Indeed, no logging PIC based on sole manipulator.  I agree that, except for the case of dual received (where one was still sole manipulator but does not log as PIC), there appears to be little basis through which this experience can justify for night currency.

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  7. Don Smith on Jan 07, 2011

    Thanks for your discussion on this guys…you can see my wonder. I am open to any more comments. I have put a call into a FSDO with no return call yet.

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  8. Don Smith on Jan 13, 2011

    Last entery to thread.
    The FSDO in OKC, (not one operations specialist, but all them present in the office came to this conclusion), said it can not be logged as PIC IF no instuctor onboard is giving dual…pointing to  61.51->Part E->Section 1-> (i). “for which the pilot is rated”. He says that must be satisfied before reading any further.
    Thanks for your inputs!

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