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9 Answers

Retacting Flaps On Short FInal

Asked by: 6252 views Aerodynamics

Hi have a question regarding final approach with full flaps. Get caught in a downdraft. Does one reduce flap settings by one notch  and add power? Or just add power for altitude? Or go around?

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9 Answers



  1. Eric H on Oct 25, 2016

    Great question! Anytime you are coming in for a landing, you want the airplane to be stable. That includes on the proper approach speed, proper rate of descent, and proper configuration. If the airplane has those 3 things, and is going towards your selected aim point on the runway, you have the ingredients for a good landing. Anytime you change any of those things, you run the risk of having a hard landing, or worse, damaging the aircraft.

    If you find yourself taking out flaps in order to “fix” a landing, your best bet is to do a go around and try again. In this case altitude is your friend and you don’t want to be behind an aircraft that is getting closer to the ground. In this case, I would have conducted a go around and tried again.

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  2. Kris Kortokrax on Oct 25, 2016

    Why did you change the wording of your question? Earlier, it contained a scenario in which your instructor retracted flaps while you were on final and your discussion with him on the way home, in which he became defensive when you questioned him.

    My thought is that you should not have full flaps extended until you are assured of reaching the runway. By reaching the runway, I do not mean the threshold, I mean the fixed distance marker, which is the point you would be led to by following the VASI, PAPI, etc. This gives you a bit of a margin for error. If you don’t extend full flaps too early, you don’t need to worry about retracting them.

    You were right in your first wording to reference the AFH and its admonition concerning retracting flaps to correct for an undershoot.

    Consider also that when you move to a complex airplane, you run the risk of selecting the wrong lever and retracting the landing gear on short final, instead of the flaps.

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  3. rene.mosbach on Oct 25, 2016

    He was high on the approach, he then went full flaps to lose altitude. When we were short on final approx. 50′ downdraft caught us, he then reduced the flaps from full to partial, added power then back to full for a landing making the runway. I mentioned that during my training NEVER to reduce flaps during landing just add power for altitude. He said its ok to do that. He also said he wanted proof. So I gave it to him.AFH CHAPTER 8 Flaps. So it says never to retract flaps this will increase the sink rate. So the million dollar question is: Reducing flaps ok? I reworded the question cuz maybe the wording was confusing. I only retract flaps once on the ground for braking.

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  4. Kris Kortokrax on Oct 25, 2016

    “High on final” is not really descriptive enough. If one is slightly high, reducing power and/or a forward slip should be enough to correct the situation.

    If one is very high on short final, then a go-around should probably be initiated. Obviously, if you are landing on an 8000′ runway with a 172, the option of just landing long is a viable one, but you didn’t present enough information to enable anyone to give a more specific comment.

    Not sure what you mean by “50′ downdraft”. If you mean that you were 50′ low, it depends on where you were when you were 50′ low. On a 3 degree approach, the threshold crossing height is 52′ (tan 3 degrees * 1000′). If you were 50′ low at the threshold, your scenario wouldn’t work. You would have to have been some distance from the threshold. If your instructor was using the VASI or PAPI, he should have been able to see the trend lower in enough time to correct using just power and pitch. If he still insisted on retracting the flaps, that should not have been his first move. He should have first added full power, then retracted the flaps. While delaying the power addition, he would be sinking lower and the flap retraction would exacerbate the situation.

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  5. rene.mosbach on Oct 25, 2016

    We were on short final and was caught in a down draft. Losing altitude quick. I agree with you it was not a stable approach from the get go. He just caught me of guard by reducing the flap setting. In his view is that he was reducing drag and increasing lift. So I don’t want him to use this technique cause it appears to be unsafe IAW FAA books. Why do pilots invent there own techniques? No, High on the approach, not high on final, then low and slow on final, landed on piano bars.

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  6. Kris Kortokrax on Oct 25, 2016

    You didn’t mention what kind of airplane you were in, the speed you were flying on approach, the airport (surrounding terrain, runway length) or weather conditions (gusty winds). The lack of this information makes it more difficult to offer any kind of relevant comments.

    I also find it interesting that the instructor demanded “proof” from you concerning your position, but apparently offered nothing to you in support of his technique.

    There is a big difference between having 2000 hours of experience and having 1 hour of experience 2000 times.

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  7. rene.mosbach on Oct 25, 2016

    C172 light wind down the runway, speed 65-75kts . Some mechanical turbulence which I guess caused that sudden downdraft. I mentioned to him that I read it but forgot where I read this about Never retract flaps for undershoot. So you wanted a link. He said that he was being pulled down by a downdraft while above a 3 degree landing. He also said I need to understand that he did not retract the flaps, he decreased the flap setting to reduce the drag which in turn generates more lift than drag. When I was past the downdraft still above the 3 degree landing path I added full flaps again when the field was made I pilled power and landed That is what he texted. So there you have it. .Thanks

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  8. rene.mosbach on Oct 25, 2016

    thank you Kris and thank you Eric for about the 3 ingredients for a good landing. I don’t need this cowboy grab form an instructor. I think because he has 2000 plus hrs, he is acting on the 5 bad attitudes that all pilots have, Macho, Anti-authority. So I will ask him not to do that anymore cause its my C172 period.

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  9. Skyfox on Nov 02, 2016

    You’re right in what you read. In such a situation, the first thing to do is increase power to get the climb going and counteract the downdraft. You don’t want to reduce flaps until you have a positive rate of climb because, as you read, that will reduce lift because it’s reducing the camber of the airfoil and therefore also angle of attack at a time when the speed is already slow. The full power will increase the airspeed so you can safely remove the flaps, which may be only a few seconds later, but if you reduce flaps first like the instructor did you could find yourself sinking faster.

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