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9 Answers

Where am I relative to a holding fix?

Asked by: 7173 views , ,
Instrument Rating

Working through [] study questions for the IFR written.  There are many questions of the sort where ATC directs you to hold at a fix.  The explanation of the correct answer always starts with a statement like: "Holding north on the 360° radial with left turns means you will be east of R-360.".  The figure in this case shows a course indicator of 60 deg. This seems counter to reason; if I am heading 60 deg to a fix, then I should be west of R-360, but for at least 10 questions now, I am consistently wrong.  Without the course indicator, I don't understand how there is enough information to determine whether I am east or west of R-360.  What up with this?

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9 Answers



  1. John D Collins on Sep 01, 2015

    The direction of the hold is used to specify where the inbound leg is located with respect to the holding fix or facility. If the instructions had been hold south of the fix on the 360 radial, the inbound leg would be south of the fix, and to get to the fix, you would have to navigate on a course of 360 degrees. But holding north of the fix places the inbound leg to the north of the fix. This means that you will be flying the reciprocal of the radial, or 180 degrees as your inbound course to the fix. With left turns having been specified, having reached the fix along the inbound course of 180 degrees, your left turn will place the two turns and outbound leg of the racetrack to the east of the radial and generally to the north and east of the fix.

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  2. ack19104 on Sep 01, 2015

    Thanks, John, but what you explained is the part that I already understood. What I don\’t understand is how I would know that I am EAST of the fix from the information provided. As I read the course indicator, 55deg means that I am WEST of the fix?

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  3. Mark Kolber on Sep 01, 2015

    I think we would (or at least I would) need to see a specific question and the referenced figure in order to explain.

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  4. ack19104 on Sep 01, 2015

    OK, Mark, but I’ve really given you almost everything I get in these questions, and this problem set has at least 15 questions of exactly the same type and I get every one of them wrong. The question reads:

    You receive this ATC clearance:
    ‘…CLEARED TO THE XYZ VORTAC. HOLD NORTH ON THE THREE SIX ZERO RADIAL, LEFT TURNS…’
    What is the recommended procedure to enter the holding pattern?

    The figure provided is: http://imgur.com/Esfkyda

    The answer for this particular question includes the statement: “Holding north on the 360° radial with left turns means you will be east of R-360.” I don’t understand why I would be east of R-360. The heading indicator suggests that the fix is NE, which puts me SW of the fix!

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  5. John D Collins on Sep 01, 2015

    ack,

    The question is asking what the recommended procedure to enter the holding pattern. Here is the graphic showing the hold in red depicted on the HSI and your flightpath and entry to the hold in yellow. The answer to the question would be a teardrop entry, which would require a left turn to a heading of 030 after passing the holding fix. My freehand doesn’t depict the turn to 030, but it should.

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/58910037/hold%20360%20LT.jpg

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  6. ack19104 on Sep 01, 2015

    Yes, exactly, John. Thank you for the effort of illustrating this, but again … I did understand that part completely. What I did not understand was why the answer says I will be EAST of R360.

    My best guess at this point is that at the time the question is posed, I am actually WEST of R360, not EAST. However, the hold will occur “on or EAST” of R360. The problem is not actually the question, the problem is in the answer that is offered, which I must conclude is worded very poorly.

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  7. John D Collins on Sep 02, 2015

    Without seeing all the answers, it is difficult to know which choice is best. With holding patterns, the holding side provides more airspace that is protected from obstacles than the non holding side. One can certainly say that the holding entry is accomplished east of the radial on the protected side in this case. Once you are established inbound, you are tracking the radial and in the hold, not the entry phase. Please provide the full question and all the answer choices.

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  8. ack19104 on Sep 02, 2015

    What I wrote above is the WHOLE question:

    —————————————————————————————————————-
    You receive this ATC clearance:
    ‘…CLEARED TO THE XYZ VORTAC. HOLD NORTH ON THE THREE SIX ZERO RADIAL, LEFT TURNS…’
    What is the recommended procedure to enter the holding pattern?

    The figure provided is: http://imgur.com/Esfkyda
    —————————————————————————————————————-

    The possible answers are the obvious ones, direct, parallel, and teardrop. We are agreed that teardrop is the correct answer in this case. However, I AM HAVING TROUBLE CALLING ATTENTION TO MY QUESTION. As in the title of this post, where am I relative to the holding fix when I receive this clearance from ATC?

    Based on the course indicator, I believe I am west, even southwest of the fix. However, the explained answer reads “Holding north on the 360° radial with left turns means you will be east of R-360.” This particular study guide has at least 15 questions with answers expressed in the same way, and they don’t make sense.

    The only way I can reconcile this explanation with my understanding is that I am indeed WEST of the fix WHEN I receive the clearance, but I WILL be EAST of the fix for portions of the time when I am in the hold. Seems to me this is a very confusing, even misleading explanation of this question.

    As far as knowing that it should be a teardrop entry, that’s easy, except when the answer says I am east of the fix, which implies a parallel entry.in this case.

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  9. Best Answer


    Ernest Ortner on Sep 02, 2015

    Ack, the answer you are referencing is describing where you will be once established in the hold. If they were describing where you would be when you received the clearance their verbiage would be different. They would have said something like, “Prior to entering the hold you were southwest of the fix requiring a teardrop entry.” FAA phrasing can often times be very ambiguous, I don’t think anyone will argue that point.

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