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Asked by: tommytom
ADF, approach, DME, plate, Required Instrument Rating
I can't tell why KHUT approach plate has "ADF or DME Required" and KSLN doesn't have "ADF or DME Required" printed on the plate.
on Sep 28, 2014
The Hutchinson (HUT) ILS 13 approach requires ADF or DME in order to navigate to the IAFs (Initial Approach Fix).
The feeder routes for HUT proceed from GUTER to the arc and from SPELT to SALTT (HU)
The Salina (SLN) ILS 35 approach shows one feeder route from SLN to FLORY.
GUTER and ANTON are IAFs. The bold black line proceeding from those fixes is the Initial Approach Segment, not a feeder route. Feeder routes are depicted by an unbolded solid line and the associated altitude, course and distance.
A suitable RNAV unit may be substituted for either ADF or DME on the HUT approach.
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on Sep 28, 2014
Ok I want to make sure I understand this.
Would I be correct saying; No matter (even if receiving radar vectors). If the airplane is NOT equipped with an ADF or certified IFR GPS, the pilot of that airplane can not fly OR accept the KHUT ILS 13 approach. Would this statement be correct?
A pilot could however fly KSLN ILS 35 approach without GPS or ADF because there is a feeder route from the SLN VOR. (Feeder routes are depicted by an unbolded solid line and the associated altitude, course and distance).
Boy has Technology spoiled and made me a little dumb. I would rather ask the question though rather than assume. And just for the record. I have posed this question to several seasoned instrument pilots with lots of time and have seen them scratching their head as well.
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on Sep 29, 2014
tommytom, Yes “required” means “required.” So it’s arguable that all the confusion about the Planview notes ad the Briefing Strip Notes Box entry is unnecessary. If it’s required, it’s required.
Don’t feel dumb – the use of the “required” Planview logo and Notes Box entry is, as you have found speaking with others, not understood very well. The difference in where the notes are is part of Kris’ spot-on explanation and is discussed in AIM 3-4-5, ¶3(b):
• “Required” on the Planview means needed to get to an IAF from the en route environment;
• “Required” in the Notes box means, needed for other segments of the approach,including the missed except for the FAC;
(• FAC requirements are in the title of the procedure).
A bit confusing? It’s conceivable that one approach chart might have all three designations of required equipment – see the KMFR ILS or LOC/DME 14 for an example. There was a charting office group discussion last year that made recommendations to avoid the confusion by combining the chart notes (not the title information) in one place.
on Sep 29, 2014
Let me add to what Mark said.
Approach procedures are legal documents, they are part of Part 97 of the regulations.
91.175 (a) requires the use of a Part 97 standard instrument approach procedure, unless otherwise authorized by the FAA. These are the regulations that back up the idea that the equipment is required.
Now, we all know that ATC can issue alternate missed approach instructions, so the whole procedure is not etched in stone.
91.175 (i) states: “When radar is approved at certain locations for ATC purposes, it may be used not only for surveillance and precision radar approaches, as applicable, but also may be used in conjunction with instrument approach procedures predicated on other types of radio navigational aids. Radar vectors may be authorized to provide course guidance through the segments of an approach to the final course or fix.”
This would seem to imply that if radar is available, you can perform the approach at HUT even if you don’t have an ADF, DME or suitable RNAV.
Forget about the feeder routes. They have no bearing on this discussion.
John D Collins
on Sep 29, 2014
On the KHUT ILS or LOC RWY 13 approach, all the IAF’s require either ADF or DME. ZUPAB and WUPNU require the DME. GUTTR and SPELT require the ADF. When the PT is required at HU, the ADF is required for the hold, so even using the feeder from HUT VOR/DME ends up needing to fly the hold and therefore requires the ADF. Bottom line, all routes require either the ADF or DME.
On the KSLN ILS or LOC RWY 35, there are two feeder routes from GUTTR and ANTON that don’t require the ADF or DME and don’t use the hold for a procedure turn. Since they don’t require either ADF or DME, the notes requiring them are not included.
Usually if radar is an acceptable method to determine a fix location, the text “Radar” appears above the fix. If a VOR radial is acceptable to define an intersection, the plan view will show the radial as a line that passes thru the fix and continues on the other side of the fix. The standards change over time that are used to create the approach charts and if an approach is older, it may not use the most current version of the FAA guidance. Also, from time to time you can discover errors in the approach charts.
I’m curious as to why you would characterize the bold black lines proceeding from GUTTR and ANTON on the SLN ILS 35 approach as feeder routes. They appear to me to be Initial Approach Segments.
You are correct, sloppy on my part. The main point is still the same, that starting at one of these IAF does not require ADF or DME.
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