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8 Answers

Instrument Currency in Dual Flights

Asked by: 5757 views
General Aviation, Instrument Rating

I have my instrument rating, but I am not instrument current (12 CM has passed). If I were to go on an training flight in which we would be operating IFR with an instructor who is IFR current, would I, as someone logging PIC time, be required to be IFR current? Can I even log PIC time in IFR with the instructor, even though I hold an instrument rating and am not current?

Adding on, can I regain my currency from doing 6 IAPs, tracking, interecepting, holding procedures during my flight training with said instructor, or would I need to do an IPC?

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8 Answers



  1. Mark Kolber on Aug 24, 2014

    Yes to all:

    Logging PIC under 61.51 (as opposed to acting as PIC o a flight) requires you be sole manipulator of the controls and be rated for the aircraft. Period. There are no other conditions. No exceptions. Not currency. Not medical certificates. Not endorsements. Not “checked out.” Not “receiving dual.” Nothing. Zero. Nada. Come up with another one? Also no.

    Of course you can regain instrument currency during the first 6 months after losing it by performing the required tasks with an instructor on board. But that leads me to a question (it’s really curiosity, not a flame on the question; I ask it a lot): Why would you think that you could regain instrument currency during the first 6 months after losing instrument currency with a safety pilot but not with an instructor? .

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  2. John D Collins on Aug 24, 2014

    Here is an example of how the rule is applied. Assume that on July 1, 2013 you were IFR current and had completed 6 IAPs, tracking, intercepting, holding procedures on that date. After that date you did not accumulate any more approaches, etc. for the following months: July, Aug, Sept, Oct, Nov, Dec, and Jan 2014. The last day you would current to act as PIC for a flight would be on Jan 31, 2014 as you would meet the requirements “Within the 6 calendar months preceding the month of the flight.”

    The first date you failed to meet currency was on Feb 1, 2014 and you have until (Feb, Mar, Apr, May, June, July are 6 calendar months) July 31, 2014 to become current using a check pilot and accumulating the 6 IAPs, tracking, intercepting, holding procedures. Assuming you did not use this method of reestablishing your currency, then on August 1, 2014 or after, you need an IPC because you will have “failed to meet the instrument experience requirements of paragraph (c) for more than six calendar months”.

    So if you need to do an IPC if more than 12 calendar months have passed and it may may consist of the “6 IAPs, tracking, intercepting, holding procedures” as long as all the items specified in the PTS Instrument Rating Task Table for an IPC are covered and the instructor finds you to be competent in those tasks.

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  3. Ron Klutts on Aug 24, 2014

    I believe for the IPC that you only need a minimum of 3 approaches per the PTS. there are some other requirements since it more aligns with a check ride style of covering many different things.

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  4. Mark Kolber on Aug 24, 2014

    Oops. Missed that “12 CM has passed.” The only way to get current again is an IPC. But no change in the logging rules.

    Yes, Ron, an IPC requires that the tasks marked as “IPC” on the Rating Task Table in the Instrument PTS be accomplished. At least 3 approaches are required, two non-precision and one precision. At least one NP approach needs to be a full approach including PT and at least one approach must be a circle to land. There are other requirements as well.

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  5. August on Aug 24, 2014

    Thank you for the answers.

    What I meant to ask is can I log instrument time with an IFR-current instructor on board when I am not instrument current. Wouldn’t I need to be current to fly (be the sole manipulator of the flight controls) in IMC AND log instrument time?

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  6. Kris Kortokrax on Aug 25, 2014

    61.51 (g) deals with logging instrument time. It does not mention anything about being current.

    It’s the old acting as PIC versus logging PIC situation.

    You need to be current to act as PIC, but not to log PIC.

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  7. Mark Kolber on Aug 25, 2014

    You can also see the first paragraph of my first answer to answer your new question.

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  8. Best Answer


    John D Collins on Aug 25, 2014

    You don’t have to be current to log PIC time. You don’t have to have a specific endorsement to log time, You need to be rated in the aircraft. Assume you haven’t flown at all in the last 13 months, don’t have a high performance or complex endorsement, have only flown a C172, and are only rated to fly a single engine land aircraft. You may not act as PIC, but if you go flying in a nice new G36 Bonanza for the first time and the other pilot, the proud owner, is also a private pilot and fully qualified to act as PIC, does act as PIC, and he lets you be the sole manipulator of the controls, you may log the time as PIC. If it happens to be IMC and he filed an IFR flightplan, but let you fly while the aircraft was in IMC, you can log the time as instrument time as well. You can’t meet your IFR currency requirements using this method, but you may log the time. You would still need the IPC and meet any other requirements for currency before you could act as PIC.

    Logging PIC time as stated in 61.51 is:

    “(e) Logging pilot-in-command flight time.
    (1) A sport, recreational, private, commercial, or airline transport pilot may log pilot in command flight time for flights-
    (i) When the pilot is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated…”

    To answer your specific question, with the CFI on board you described, you can log either simulated or actual IMC assuming the CFI acts as PIC. If the CFI is also a CFII, then it could be part of an IPC. Logging instrument time as stated in 61.51 is:

    “(g) Logging instrument time.
    (1) A person may log instrument time only for that flight time when the person operates the aircraft solely by reference to instruments under actual or simulated instrument flight conditions.”

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