Why don’t commercial flights talk on same frequency as GA?

5 Answers

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   Paul Tocknell on Nov 12, 2013

   Commercial air traffic use the same tower frequency as everyone else does. It could be that if they are “on a 7 mile final” that they are still on a approach control frequency and haven’t switched over to tower yet.

   Commercial air traffic should also be monitoring and communicating on the the same CTAF frequency that you are using. It could be that they are monitoring the frequency but maybe not talking or communicating their intentions as well as they should be.

   The only exception where you may never hear traffic is military as they commonly use UHF bands. If the tower is capable, they may use UHF which you wouldn’t hear the military pilot’s responses.

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2. 
   

   
   

   Heather McNevin on Nov 12, 2013

   There are a few reasons you may not hear other traffic on frequencies. I’ll address the CTAF question first. Many commercial and corporate air service flights are on an IFR flight plan, and therefore talking to ATC. If they are doing an approach into an uncontrolled airport, they are probably listening in to CTAF (they have multiple radios) and may be getting vectors or instructions from ATC on another frequency that you wouldn’t be monitoring. At my previous home field, that was the case. Mesaba would announce about 20-30 miles out and then again entering the pattern. If there is decent radar coverage at the airport, the controller should be telling the pilot of any VFR targets in the vicinity of the airport.

   If getting flight following and not hearing commercial air lines on frequency, that may be because they actually are on another frequency, but being worked by the same controller. I work sectors that have one frequency and I work sectors that have 5 frequencies. Most lower altitude aircraft have to be switched from frequency to frequency for coverage issues but many airliners can fly through the entire sector and be in range of the original frequency because of their altitude.

   You will not hear most military traffic because they transmit on UHF and your radios are all VHF. The controller has paired transmitters and receivers and can hear and transmit on all frequencies at once. So, if I’m working a sector with 5 frequencies, I have 5 VHF and 5 UHF so technically I could have 10 pilots all talk to me at once but none of them would be aware of any of the other transmissions. This is why I advocate to not only listen for a quiet time to jump on freq but also process the controllers instructions. If I just gave a departure clearance, you KNOW that is going to be read back, even if you cannot hear it. Allow 30 seconds for that to take place before jumping in.

   Your concern is valid. There is a lot happening between transitioning from the enroute to the terminal area of a flight. Many things are happening, in both cockpits, to get into the pattern and set up and land. There have been accidents where two VFRs have had mid air collisions because one was mistakenly on the incorrect CTAF.

   As a CFI, I have always emphasized to always look around. We get comfortable because so many times we do not see any surprises. Don’t get complacent. Also, use all your resources. If it’s a day where there are shadows on the ground, look at your shadow and see if you truly are alone. Always be aware of and check your blind spots. Make sure you are on the right freq and properly announcing (although in most airspace, aircraft with no radio what so ever have just as much a right to be there as you do). If you can, look at getting traffic capabilities on your ipad or gps. I know its expensive, but it is an option. Learn the instrument approaches at the airport so you know where to look if someone says they are on such and such GPS approach. When flying cross country, get flight following for another set of eyes helping you with traffic. Turn on your lights in the vicinity of an airport to make you more visible. Be at pattern altitude a few miles away, rather than descending into the pattern, and use standard patterns. Not everybody does, but it’s the safest plan. Be especially alert operating around MOAs and MTRs.

   I hope this addressed some of your concerns!

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3. 
   

   
   

   Alex Censor on Nov 12, 2013

   Hi Heather,
   Thanks for your detailed, clear, and to the point reply.

   Bottom line is, unfortunately, as I expected, “don’t COUNT on that 300 knot turboprop commuter to be listening or announcing on the CTAF you’re on.” But good to know they COULD and should be listening.

   About the only thing in your advice I will quibble with is this:
   “Be at pattern altitude a few miles away, rather than descending into the pattern, and use standard patterns. Not everybody does, but it’s the safest plan. ”

   When I hear traffic within a few miles of me announcing they’re at some particular altitude — even pattern altitude — and I DON’T have them in sight and they haven’t said they have me in sight… unless I’m in the pattern itself or about to enter I make a point of getting myself at least 1000 feet higher or lower until such time as one of us sees the other or can confirm that there is no potential conflict. If I have to do 360’s for 10 minutes to follow that principle, so be it.
   So if I’m 5 miles out (which is 5 minutes in my slow LSA when nearing the airport) if someone n vicintity announces they’re at what happens to be pattern altitude I ain’t going down to pattern altitude until we have cleared all possibility of conflict.
   With the exception of being IN the pattern I’d say the fewer aircraft at the same altitude the safer.

   Alex

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4. 
   

   
   

   Donnie on Nov 12, 2013

   “See and avoid” is the best way to avoid an incident. In or near the pattern, seeing and avoiding is most effectively done when at pattern altitude. Not descending into the pattern.

   Entering the pattern, stabilized at pattern altitude, IS the safest way to do it. Traffic patterns are the busiest part of the sky. It’s much easier to spot traffic when you’re at the same altitude than when they are above or below you.

   There’s a reason why this is a best practice.

   Also, remember that radios are not required equipment. Though not common, sometimes you’ll come across aircraft who do not have a functioning radio. Or someone commits the honest mistake transmitting or listening on the wrong frequency.

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   Bob Watson on Nov 13, 2013

   I have to put in another vote for being at pattern altitude when approaching an entering the airport traffic area. The main reason is that’s where everyone else in the area is expecting you to be. If you’re 10 miles out, then you can be at whatever altitude you want, but as you get within 5 miles or so of the airport, and definitely when you’re on the 45 to downwind, you should be at pattern altitude. Not only is it easier to see the other traffic, but it’s easier for them to see you.

   In the pattern, most pilots are looking at and below their altitude (where most of the traffic will be) and assuming traffic above them is just passing through. Also, most GA airplanes have the best visibility around and below their altitude (looking out and down). So, while you might feel safer 1000′ above the traffic, think of the surprise you’ll give to another pilot when you drop into the traffic pattern from above–especially if they’re likely to be overtaking you in your slower plane.

   The speed of an LSA offers its own set of challenges. To minimize this at a nearby airport with a mix of GA and LSA/Ultralight traffic, they have two patterns and two runways; one for each type of plane. However, if you’re heading to an airport or runway that’s used primarily by GA aircraft, say with a pattern speed of 90-120 kts, you might need to fly the 45 and downwind legs at cruise power in your LSA.

   The traffic pattern is safest when everyone is playing by the same rules. There’s no room for surprises there.

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