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17 Answers

CAN I INSTRUCT A PRIVATE PILOT FROM THE BACK SEAT

Asked by: 47039 views FAA Regulations, Flight Instructor, Private Pilot

My Medical is in the process of review and has expired.  My buddy owns the plane and sits up front and the student pilot sits in the pilot seat and me in the back.  Is it legal for me to give the student logable time from the back seat?  I hope to get my medical within the month but the student has a time window and wants to move ahead.  Just trying to get him some airtime.

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17 Answers



  1. Kris Kortokrax on Sep 11, 2013

    61.195(g) and 91.109(a) are the only references I can find.

    While there is no explicit statement that the instructor occupy the other control seat, it seems to be implicit. If the pilot who occupies the other seat is not capable of correctly demonstrating maneuvers, what would the quality of instruction given be?

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  2. Jim F. on Sep 11, 2013

    I actually had very recent experience with this, which was confirmed suitable per the FARs by the STL FSDO: I am working on my commercial multi addon, while a CFI I know was working on his MEI, using the same instructor I was. To help us both, we split the cost of the flight, the CFI sat in the right seat, I sat in the left seat, and the MEI sat in the back. The MEI endorsed both of our logbooks. Since the FARs don’t specifically say that the instructor must occupy a seat with control access, this was confirmed legal, and this MEI has done it for the last few decades.

    As for Kris’ question, “what would the quality of instruction be?” As I see it, even though the instructor isn’t physically controlling the aircraft, he is indeed ensuring that they are being taught and performed correctly. In my case, it was an even greater advantage for us both, as I was getting insights form two great instructors and a BE76 for $125/hr. Can you beat that?

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  3. flyer55 on Sep 11, 2013

    My buddy has about 6500 hours and is an excellent pilot and we both are involved with the Explorers and Young Eagles programs. I will call my fsdo tomorrow to get their view as i do not want to endorse a logbook when i shouldn’t. I walk him thru the steps and advice correction as needed and i know my buddy will grab it as it his plane and wont allow any unsafe conditions. Hopefully after talking with the medical division tomorrow they will give me a heads up, but who knows what their requirements are as i have changed from taking insulin shots for diabetes to now using the insulin pump which is much better. I called the medical division about the change, I believe this would be considered a major change,but they are dragging their feet and will not clear me as of yet. I have had a special issuance medical for the last 10 years with no problem, but want to be on the up and up and do what is correct for the student and myself. Thanks for all comments and advise.

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  4. Brian on Sep 11, 2013

    You have no medical. You need a current 3rd class to exercise as a CFI except under a few circumstances. This isn’t one of them. No, you cannot instruct from any seat with a student pilot on the controls.

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  5. Wes Beard on Sep 11, 2013

    Brian,

    The only time a CFI needs a medical is when they are a required crew member under the regs. He is not the legal pilot in command…. that duty falls to his friend with 6500 hours. He is also not a safety pilot.

    In this special case, Flyer55 can instruct private pilot candidates without a medical. There is no reg that prohibits it.

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  6. Mark Kolber on Sep 12, 2013

    I agree with Wes. Technically, there’s nothing in the regs that prohibits the following instructional scenario:

    1. Student pilot in front left seat.
    2. Properly qualified pilot acting as pilot in command in front right seat.
    3. CFI in back seat.

    And, in this scenario, since someone else is acting as PIC and the CFI is not part of the required piloting crew, the CFI does not require a medical.

    But the question is really whether this is one of those cases where Legal is also Smart. Even if legally OK, I’d at least ask myself the following questions:

    • Is the right seat PIC not only legally qualified but capable of flying from the right seat?

    • Is the right seat PIC good enough to make the subtle assists often made by instructors and, even more important, recover from student errors? If the student, for example, enters a spin from a power-on stall, do I trust the guy in the right seat be able to recover? That’s both a safety and quality of instruction question.

    • Am I prepared to accept responsibility for something going wrong? NTSB case law has long taken the view that a CFI is “deemed” to be pilot in command of an instructional flight (doesn’t necessarily mean =is= the PIC, just held to PIC standards). At the very, very least, am I prepared to answer the post-accident “what were you thinking?” question.

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  7. John D Collins on Sep 12, 2013

    A FSDO inspector may have an opinion, but it is not binding. I trust the opinions of Kris or Wes more than i would one from a FSDO inspector. If you want a real opinion that has FAA authority, you have to request it from the FAA General Counsel.

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  8. John D Collins on Sep 12, 2013

    There is an interesting Opinion to Ivan Grau dated Oct 1, 2010 issued by the FAA General Counsel. It does not ask the question posed by flyer55, but it references another set of rulings that may bear on this question.

    “We have stated, for example, that an instructor is a required pilot flight crewmember if the person receiving instruction is not qualified to act as pilot in command or if the type certificate of the aircraft on which instruction is being given requires more than one pilot flight crewmember and no other qualified pilot is on board. White Interpretation, Oct. 5, 1978. Likewise, we have indicated that instructors who act as safety pilots must possess valid medical certificates because they are required crewmembers. 62 FR 16220, 16242, April 4, 1997. Section 61.23 requires a person exercising the privileges of a flight instructor certificate to hold at least a third class medical certificate if serving as a required pilot flight crewmember.

    Section 61.23 requires a person exercising the privileges of a flight instructor certificate to
    hold at least a third class medical certificate if serving as a required pilot flight crewmember.”

    I will try to get a copy of the Oct 5, 1978 opinion to see if it is applicable to this question.

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  9. Brian on Sep 12, 2013

    (a) No person may operate a civil aircraft (except a manned free balloon) that is being used for flight instruction unless that aircraft has fully functioning dual controls.

    I’m basing my view on what I believe is the purpose of the regulation. To me that purpose is clear; you cannot give instruction to a non-rated pilot unless the person giving instruction has access to functional dual controls.

    Perhaps my reading into it is over stepping, but I was always taught (by you Mark 😉 ) to read a regulation while trying to imagine what the writers purpose was for that regulation.

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  10. flyer55 on Sep 12, 2013

    Thanks so much for the advise and comments. To me I believe I shouldn’t be able to instruct without being by the controls as Brian has said. Sure my friend is an excellent pilot and I trust him to do the right thing but he doesn’t have the CFI cert. I hate to disappoint this student but this is too weird of a gray area to monkey with my cert or give unlogable instruction to a new student who wants to become an airline pilot. I think we will just both bite the bullet and wait until the medical has been approved. I’m calling them right now. Thanks again for all the comments.

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  11. Mark Kolber on Sep 12, 2013

    but I was always taught (by you Mark 😉 )

    There’s your first mistake 😀

    Personally, I think 91.109(a) simply envisions that there needs to be =someone= there to recover from student errors. If the FAA required the someone be a CFI, it would be very easy to say so. Maybe something like

    No person may operate a civil aircraft (except a manned free balloon) that is being used for flight instruction unless that aircraft has fully functioning dual controls and the other control seat is occupied by an authorized instructor.

    Y’know, sort of like the language in (c) for safety pilots?

    The situation with the student pilot is clearly problematic for other reasons bit a question: do you read the reg the same way if the “student” were a private pilot doing his complex or high performance transition training? How about a private pilot ASEL with 4,000 hours training for his multi?

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  12. flyer55 on Sep 12, 2013

    I called the medical division and they said you are in line, we have a big backlog and we will get to it when we can. I explained the situation and they noted down the info and said they have a note from August 8th when I called in last time and took down my phone number so hope this will speed things along. They also said they don’t have any requests for more info, which they asked for before from my doctor in May and she resent all info from the last year again to them. Very frustrating and I’m nearing completion on my home built Zenith STOL 750 which I want to test fly around xmas. Paperwork has to be the most horrible thing related to flying or anything else for that matter!

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  13. Mark Kolber on Sep 12, 2013

    John (and all), here’ is the White opinion from 1978. Substantially the same as the 2010 Grau opinion.

    ==============================
    OCT. 5, 1978

    MR. WILLMOT E. WHITE

    Dear Mr. White:

    This is in response to your letter of August 13, asking whether a certificated flight instructor (CFI) would be permitted to perform certain instructing duties without a valid medical certificate. You also state that the flight instructor would not necessarily have to act as pilot in command.

    Section 61.3(c) of the Federal Aviation Regulations provides, in pertinent part, that no person may act as pilot in command or in any other capacity as a required flight crewmember of an aircraft under a certificate issued under part 61, unless that person has in his or her personal possession an appropriate current medical certificate issued under Part 67. Section 61.19(d)(1) provides that a flight instructor certificate is effective only while the holder has a current pilot certificate and a medical certificate appropriate to the pilot privileges being exercised.

    Accordingly, a CFI giving flight instruction need not possess a valid medical certificate if the instructor is not exercising pilot privileges as pilot in command or a required crewmember.

    It would be necessary for the CFI to act as pilot in command if the person being instructed were not qualified to do so, eg. if that person had not and the biennial flight review required by Section 61.57(a). similarly, the type certificate of the aircraft on which instruction is being given requires more than one pilot crewmember, the CFI would have to act as a required crewmember, unless another qualified pilot is in the aircraft. (my emphasis)

    We trust this satisfactorily answers your question.

    Sincerely,

    Original Signed by Carl B. Schellenberg
    CARL B. SCHELLENBERG
    Assistant Chief Counsel
    Assistant Chief Counsel
    Regulations and Enforcement Division
    Office of the Chief Counsel
    ==============================

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  14. John D Collins on Sep 12, 2013

    Mark,

    The portion you emphasised doesn’t apply to this situation because the aircraft does not require more than one pilot crew member, “the aircraft on which instruction is being given requires more than one pilot crewmember, the CFI would have to act as a required crewmember, unless another qualified pilot is in the aircraft.”

    Thanks for quoting the Opinion.

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  15. Mark Kolber on Sep 12, 2013

    The concept is identical – if there is a qualified pilot who is accepting the role of PIC or required crew when one is required in addition to the “student,” – the CFI does not have to take on that role.

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  16. SkyMachines on Oct 30, 2013

    A web search brought me here. Try this: Licensed, current pilot in left seat under their hood. Licensed, current pilot w/medical in right seat as safety pilot. CFII in back seat w/no medical giving instrment instruction to both. Legal? Loggable by all three? Yes… left seat PIC/total/hood, right seat SIC/total (some say PIC/total), rear seat, Dual given/total. Thoughts?

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  17. Kris Kortokrax on Mar 31, 2019

    It is five years after the question was asked, however there has been a legal interpretation posted which answers the question.

    https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/interpretations/data/interps/2018/williams%20-%20(2018)%20legal%20interpretation.pdf

    The instructor cannot instruct from the back seat.

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