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8 Answers

King air 90 logging time

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Commercial Pilot

I'm a mult engine commercial instrument  rated pilot with my high performance, high altitude, and complex endorsements. I know the king air 90 is a single pilot aircraft that does not required a type rating to be flown. Having only what I have am I legal to fly the aircraft as pic with no schooling since the aircraft is under 12,500. I'm confused on the FAR  and what I can do under the them. 

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8 Answers

  1. Mark Kolber on Apr 13, 2013

    I’m not sure I understand the question. Going by what you say:

    You are a commercial pilot with MEL and instrument ratings and high performance, high altitude, and complex endorsements.

    The King Air is a MEL aircraft that requires no type rating.

    What FAR do you think prevents you from acting as PIC in one? Anything particular in 61.31 you see as a problem? Is this a Part 91 or Part 135 operation?

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  2. Matthew Waugh on Apr 13, 2013

    As Mark hints at – you’re probably getting yourself confused by wandering into Part 91K or Part 135 regulations.

    You are legal to fly a King Air 90 with a multi-engine certificate. Now call the insurance broker and let us know how THAT call goes…… 🙂

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  3. John D. Collins on Apr 13, 2013

    You will also need the ground and flight training and one time endorsements required by 61.31 (g) for operating pressurized aircraft capable of operating at high altitudes before you can “act as PIC”. However, if you are not going to act as PIC, but just plan on logging PIC, you must be the sole manipulator of the controls and be rated for the aircraft you are flying. You meet the latter conditions, so could log flight time as PIC when you are the sole manipulator of the controls. The fact that you have a high performance and complex endorsement is only relevant if you are “acting as PIC”, in which case you need the 61.31 (g) endorsement as well.

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  4. Mychael on Apr 13, 2013

    This is a Part 91 operation.

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  5. Mark Kolber on Apr 13, 2013

    Since there aren’t any special Part 135 issues, you’re good to go (John, I think you missed that Mychael already had his high altitude endorsement).

    But it still may help to know what confused you. Until you can look at the applicable rules and understand why you’re good to go, you’re still stuck with nothing more than an answer from SGOTI (some guy on the internet).

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  6. Mychael on Apr 13, 2013

    Ok let me rephrase the question. As a commerical pilot with my MEL, Instrunment, High performance, High alilitude and Complex endorsements. Im flying part 91 in a King Air 90 B model. Aircraft is under the 12,500lbs for the and only requires one pilot. The pilot I flew with explaned to me that I can log all the hours that ive flown in the aircraft without a CFI signature after every entry since I am MEL, Instrunment rated and have the required endorsements to fly at FL 180 and above. My question is since the King Air 90 does not require a type rating or schooling ( except for insurance reasons) am I legally able to log time while flying with another pilot since I am the solo manipluator of all flight control but am not acting as PIC. CFR 61.31 (d) is the first question in the regulations that makes me stop and question. Basically I want to know with the rating that I currently hold am I able to log time in a King Air that doesnt require a type rating. According to the other pilot I do not need training or a CFI signature after the flight when logging the time since its not a type rated aircraft. An if this is true how should I log it?

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  7. Wes Beard on Apr 13, 2013

    You can only log the PIC time when you are the sole manipulator of the controls. You don’t need any other endorsement. You will log PIC time and total time but not cross country time These times must match. If the total flight time was two hours and you flew for one hour. You can only log one hour.

    The reason you cannot log XC time is because you need to have a takeoff and landing at the different airports.

    Here’s the kicker. The other pilot has to follow the same rules as you unless they are an instructor. There cannot be dual PIC time without a regulation to support it.

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  8. Mark Kolber on Apr 14, 2013


    That pilot is correct up to the comma after “MEL.” He could have stopped right there.

    You’re asking about =logging= the hours. You can log the hours you are the sole manipulator as PIC so long as it’s an aircraft you are =rated= for. Your Commercial, AMEL is sufficient for logging in the King since it does not require a type rating. Your instrument rating (an operation rating, not an aircraft rating) and endorsements (endorsements are not ratings) are irrelevant to the logging question. They are, of course relevant to the question of =acting= as PIC in the King Air, but not to the question of logging.


    Common mistake. 61.31 is a rule that deals with =acting= as PIC, so it’s irrelevant to the question of logging time as sole manipulator. Logging time is in 61.51 and unless part of 61.51 specifically asks you a question that leads you to another section, the other section is irrelevant. Nothing in 61.51(e)(1)(iii) asks you anything other than whether you, as sole manipulator, hold the applicable pilot certificate with the applicable aircraft rating.


    He’s correct. You log your sole manipulator time the columns of your logbook: MEL, PIC*, night, actual instrument, hooded instrument, etc, as applicable.

    The only proviso on logging as PIC is if you are trying to keep records for future employment. Some employers define what they want to see as “PIC” time differently than the FAA does. What some pilots do so solve that problem is have 2 PIC columns, the second one of which contains only “acting as PIC” entries.

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