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8 Answers

Flight Instruction One Way

Asked by: 12681 views FAA Regulations, Flight Instructor

Where is the appropriate regulation to point to that indicates that I can't give flight instruction one way on a trip and drop the person off then fly the plane back to home base while they pay for the flight both ways and my time?

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8 Answers



  1. Matthew Waugh on Feb 07, 2012

    Part 119 – if you can find a way that what you describe is not transportation you’re good to go – but seems to me if the student starts at one point and ends up somewhere else there had to be transportation going on somewhere.

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  2. Kris Kortokrax on Feb 07, 2012

    I would posit that 119 not only doesn’t prohibit this operation, it allows it.  119.1(e)(1) exempts student instruction from the requirements to hold an air carrier certificate.  119.1(e)(3) exempts ferry flights from the requirements to hold an air carrier certificate.
     
    Now, it would be a different situation if you took a student and some of his friends on the one way trip.  You couldn’t make the argument that you were providing instruction to everyone on board.
     
    Another thing that comes into play is “holding out” to the public.  If you advertise an operation that involves you flying anyone, anywhere at any time as student instruction, then you would likely incur the wrath of the FAA. 
     
    A pilot with a Commercial certificate is allowed to fly a person for compensation and is allowed to fly an aircraft for compensation.  Corporate flight departments do this every day.

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  3. Derek Schwalenberg on Feb 08, 2012

    The problem is here is that you are charging for the flight home. That makes you a 135 op. (As someone else said ‘Air Carrier’). You could charge for instruction to the destination, (not sure what the limit is on how much 😉 but for the flight home it would have to be on your dime. Maybe there is a grey area where you could not charge for instruction on the way home but just the airplane as one entire flight… At least if you weren’t getting paid on the way home your intentions would not appear to be charter service and MAYBE you could argue that you were ONLY giving him instruction on the way there. Although by definition I don’t even think spliting costs for the return trip is legal if he is not on the airplane but you are going to pay him back for that part in cash later, right? (and he will swear to this)

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  4. Curtis Ide on Feb 08, 2012

    I have always thought this is a tough one to argue from a legal standpoint.  The answers above show that you can swing opinions either way. First, if it is in their airplane you don’t have any problems because you are then just a hired pilot and no longer providing the aircraft.  Second, if you are even considering doing this I would make sure your student has a student pilot license and that you are giving them normal private pilot instructing and not just one-way trips.  I think the one-way trips would be a harder arguement with the FAA then round trips.  Round trips even if done for business can be considered training along a route the person will fly once they recieve their license.  However, if you are honestly giving instruction to the individual and perform the one way trips I am not sure their is anything legally to stop you from doing so.  As for the ferry home you can still charge for that aircraft time because you are not carrying passengers or cargo, right?  A flight school I used to work for had it in their SOP that they would charge customers for ferry flights and the instructor time when the customer had to leave the aircraft away from home for any reason.  I also agree if the people came to you and said I want to go from Point A to Point B can you do that? and you answered “Yes, get your student pilot license and I will fly you there and charge you aircraft time and instruction” then you would be considered a charter operation.  If the student in question was already a student, had gone solo, and was now interested in taking a cross country to a place they would like to be familiar with, I think this would be more acceptable.  You may want to write a letter to the FAA Cheif Counsel and have them make a decision? 
    Below is a link from the a recent FAA Safety brief that discusses common carriage.  It’s not specific to instruction but certainly has connections to your question.
    http://www.faa.gov/news/safety_briefing/2010/media/SepOct2010-ComeFlyWithMe.pdf
     

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  5. Matthew Waugh on Feb 08, 2012

    You can twist around any way you want. If the FAA decides to go after you they will ask this question: Were goods or people transported? If the answer is yes (and clearly if you take a student from one location to another you did) then they will find a way to hang you using Part 119.
     
    You might not like it, you might not agree with it. but that’s what’ll happen. Otherwise there would be all kinds of “students” getting transported all around the country.
     
    Now – can you engage in this kind of operation on an occassional basis for years, decades even, sure you can. There’s all kinds of people providing transportation for hire without a Part 135 certificate. Typically the FAA only goes after those who are egregious or when somebody complains (often a legitimate operator). Doesn’t make it legal.
     
    Kris’s explanation, while interesting, doesn’t address the issue of who provides the plane, which the FAA has found to be problematic when it’s a single business entity.
     
    Derek says that charging for the flight home makes you a Part 135 operation. However that’s not correct. Charging for transportation requires a certificate. Charging for empty legs is irrelevant. In fact when we fly charters we fly the last leg of the day, if we’re empty, Part 91 so as not to infringe on flight time rules. Customer still gets charged for it.
     
    You can take cross-countries to as many places as you want, you just can’t leave the student there and fly back. It’s the transporting the student from point A to point B that is problematic, everything else is a smoke screen. The school you are referring to reserved the right tp be compensated to recover their aircraft if a customer abandoned it.
     
    So again – you can make all the arguments you want to make you comfortable with this idea. And if you are comfortable undertaking that kind of operation, good for you. My advice is that when push comes to shove you’re not going to like what happens when it comes to the attention of the FAA.

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  6. Matthew Waugh on Feb 09, 2012

    There is of course a HUGE caveat in there. The problems arise if the student is renting the plane.
     
    If the student owns, or otherwise provides the plane, then it’s all fine and dandy. The instructor is merely being hired for their piloting skills and you can transport the owner (and their friends and family) all you want, and providing instruction along the way is fine too.
     
    The problematic situation is where the instructor and plane are affiliated (and don’t go down that old rat hole of “I rented the plane from the FBO and hired my own pilot”).

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  7. Kris Kortokrax on Feb 21, 2012

    Note that in my first post, I stated that performing this operation “holding out” to the public would run afoul of the FAA.  At no time, did I intimate that this would be a good business model.
    I operated under the assumption that the poster was asking about whether performing the flights as a one time operation is legal or not.  If he gives instruction to his student on a one way cross country flight, the operation is no more illegal transportation than if he provides instruction cross country to a destination and also on the return trip to the departure airport.  In either case, the student pays for the rental aircraft and instructor.  Student instruction is exempt from the requirements for an air carrier certiicate.  On the solo return flight, the commercial rated pilot is performing a ferry operation, which is also exempt from the requirements for an air carrier certificate.
     
    This assumes that valid instruction is taking place.

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  8. Sam Dawson on Mar 13, 2012

    There is nothing that prevents a CFI from holding out.  My website is “holding out”.  Holding out is merely one of the many things necessary for “common carriage” but in and of itself does not make an operation common carriage.
    The OPs question would probably depend.  If someone walked up to me who I had never met it would start to meet the definition of a charter.  Someone I have a relationship with, however, probably not.  Flying back at the student’s expense might be no different than a student paying you to fly round trip to a location, then give instruction.  Or a student paying you to fly with them to a location, give you a round trip ticket home, then have you fly back to the location to train them for the flight home.
    Part 119 is very explicit in NOT applying to flight instructin and the FAA has been loath to get into this area.  The only case I am aware of is where a CFI was giving one way discovery flights that were, in essense, charters.

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