Private Pilot Rights

16 Answers

1. 
   

   
   

   John D. Collins on Aug 10, 2011

   Derek,
    
   A private pilot may not be compensated for flying the aircraft.  It is well established by FAA Chief Counsel opinions that compensation is interpreted very broadly and even logging flight time is considered compensation.  A private pilot may share expenses with passenger(s) on a pro rata basis, but the flight must be for a common purpose, for example, you are both traveling to a family reunion.  I am pretty sure what you are proposing is not authorized by the FAR’s and the current Chief Counsel opinions. 

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2. 
   

   
   

   Koehn on Aug 10, 2011

   FAR 61.113 seems pretty clear here, specifically 61.113 (c):
   Sec. 61.113 Private pilot privileges and limitations: Pilot in command.
   (a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) through (h) of this section, no person who holds a private pilot certificate may act as pilot in command of an aircraft that is carrying passengers or property for compensation or hire; nor may that person, for compensation or hire, act as pilot in command of an aircraft.
   [snip]
   (c) A private pilot may not pay less than the pro rata share of the operating expenses of a flight with passengers, provided the expenses involve only fuel, oil, airport expenditures, or rental fees.
    
   You must pay your fair share of the expenses, otherwise you’re acting as a commercial pilot. You are being compensated (since you’re not paying your pro rata share of the cost of the airplane), which is unambiguously forbidden by the regulation.

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3. 
   

   
   

   Derek on Aug 10, 2011

   I understand that as a private pilot we cannot be compensated. However I wanted to have it clarified exactly the limitation to that. I am still trying to understand the regs in regards. However the flight would be for the both of us rather than just for him.

   So assuming the aircraft is rented, the aircraft rental fee, fuel, oil used, and any tie down and or hangar fees associated are all to be shared between us two correct?

   Thanks.

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4. 
   

   
   

   Andy Neumann on Aug 10, 2011

   I would like to clarify something that Koehn said.  “You are being compensated (since you’re not paying your pro rata share of the cost of the airplane)…”   In the eyes of the FAA, compensation is compensation… it doesn’t matter if it’s 10 cents, pro rata share, logging flight time towards achieving a new rating, or whatever.  The key to this problem is what John mentioned–shared purpose.  Even if you did pay your pro rata share, given that the purpose of the flight is air transportation of a person, and you are being hired, you would be in violation.  Now, if you did pay your pro rata share and you just flew together with your uncle to different airports, I don’t know how anyone would know that it was your uncle deciding where to go and not you, but the spirit of the law is that you are not allowed to be hired like a taxi cab and told where to go.  So… don’t do it.  Get your commercial license and then you can be your uncle’s personal chauffeur. 

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5. 
   

   
   

   Nick landman on Aug 10, 2011

   I am a low time private pilot, not an instuctor or a legal scholar, but here’s my take on how you can make this work…
   Your uncle thinks you’re a great nephew.  It sounds like you think he’s a pretty great uncle…  There is no legal issues that I know of if he gives you a monitary gift for your birthday, or barmitzvah, or to celebrate president’s day or for just being an awesome nephew.  If he gives you this money ahead of time and you put it in your account.  Heck, he can even put it in a card/envelope and write some nice words if you want to make it official. 
   At some point(s) in the future you and your uncle decide to do some “male bonding” and go up for a few trips and you use your money from your account to pay for the whole trip…  I don’t see any issues with this.  If you want to use the money to pay for flying, or put gas in your car, or take your uncle to lunch, it’s your money.
   The only issues I see with this is if the gifts total over $10k in one year I think you would need to report it to the IRS, and if your uncle is wanting to pay for the flying on his credit card so he can get points on his credit card or something or claim it as a business expense or something, this wouldn’t work, would have to be cash/check given to you.

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6. 
   

   
   

   James MacGregor CFI on Aug 11, 2011

   What you proposed would be aganst the FAA’s rules, if it were just you and one other person onboard you would need to pay your half of the rental for it to be OK in the eyes of the feds.
    
    You might want to look into flying for charaty as a private pilot, there are areas there that you might find interesting when it comes to this kind of flying, I am sure you could make this work for your situation just think outside the box a little and look into it.

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7. 
   

   
   

   Micah on Aug 11, 2011

   To reiterate and summarize some of the comments above:
    
   1. The trip, as you describe it, is not incidental.
   2. Your license is being used to offer a service that is indistinguishable from that which requires a commercial certificate.
   3. You are receiving compensation in the form of logging flight time (you didn’t pay for that, did you?)
    
   But largely, the issue is #2. If your uncle owned the airplane and needed a pilot, could you fly for him without a commercial certificate? What if all of your flying was pro bono–could you then offer your services?

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8. 
   

   
   

   Micah on Aug 11, 2011

   You may be interested to read AC 120 (PDF here: Advisory Circular – FAA)
    
   This is not specifically related to your question, but deals with commercial operations and the intentions of pilots and organizations in commercial transport. I’ve seen it most often introduced to new commercial pilots to emphasize that the while the commercial certificate brings certain privileges (fly for hire/compensation), these privileges do not extend to in all cases. A common scenario is the pilot who is willingly transporting (anyone) for compensation–but only to those clients who rent the airplane themselves. The FAA typically sees this as “holding out” the commercial services as though a charter (or otherwise regulated) operation, even though the pilot is not offering the aircraft.
    
   The point is that the FAA judges by intent in these cases, even when the facts may be construed in a favorable arrangement. Although I don’t think you can do what is proposed with private privileges, ask yourself this: “Am I offering a service that the FAA won’t allow a pilot to perform even with commercial privileges?” Your certificate allows certain privileges (carrying passengers) but does not authorize you to transport “by contract” (my words), even if that contract value is “$0.”

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9. 
   

   
   

   Derek Isaak on Aug 11, 2011

   I appreciate the clarification.  In all reality the trip would be a flight rather than a car ride so I can enjoy time with a family memeber as well as go to a destination that we are both needing to go as a whole.  However, it was the idea that between a private pilot renting an aircraft for himself, but is to carry passengers as a leisure trip to a destination, vs a family memeber renting the plane, for the same leisure trip to the same destination due to school and lack of money to do so oneself. 
   However I see that is is obvious that it cannot happen that way.  The initial post is not worded exactly how I would like it to be.  The main point is that I would like to build my flight time outside of school and my uncle wanted to rent the plane for me, and thought it would be neat if we took a few trips together instead of driving a car to local places around the area.   
   I am very aware that a private pilot cannot carry persons, property, or cargo for hire.  That was very well established by the flight instructors at my school.  However, it is to which the stipulations of that I am confused on.  The way that I saw it, is that I could travel with my uncle even though he needed to be somewhere, but the benefit would be that I will be there enjoying what he needs to do solely based on the fact if I wanted to go with him. 
    

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10. 
    

    
    

    Brian on Aug 11, 2011

    I have a question to add to this thread. How does this stack up when we are talking about flying family members? The reason I ask is because I had a very similar situation when I was in college, except it was my girlfriends uncle who was asking. The general concensus from a handful of the schools staff was that, because the person was not an immediate family member, it could not be done.
     
    However, it was also stated that if we were married the story might be different. Something along the lines of, “who is to stop family members from giving gifts?” In other words, one could view such a flight as a birthday or christmas gift. Or in the case of being married in, a wedding present. Im curious as to what others here might think. To me it seems like playing with fire, but as much of this was explained to me by an attorny I wonder the validity. Thoughts?
     
    Thank you in advance. 
     
    PS If one should agree with this interpretation, where do we draw the line? Immediate family (mom/dad/siblings), extended family, etc..?

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11. 
    

    
    

    Micah on Aug 11, 2011

    Good question, Brian. I was going to come back and comment again for Derek and your question brings up some interesting thoughts. Previously I tried to stay in fact (or interpretation of the regulations) as much as possible. Now I’ll try to stay in opinion. 
     
    First, everything that Derek appears to intend to do is appropriate and within his privileges as a private pilot. The FAA is not limiting you from carrying passengers (I would suggest that, within the bounds of safety, the FAA wants you to do this.) What the FAA is trying to do is separate what is obviously illegal activity (unregulated commercial activity) from what is obviously legal activity (private/leisure flying). The problem is when money is involved–that’s where Derek’s actions slide down the slippery slope. When he can’t prove that his intentions are within the limitations of his private certificate privileges then he puts himself in a legal coffin corner.
     
    To your questions now, Brian. I may be misreading the first comments, but you are not limited to flying with family, close friends, old high school buddies, or whatever. You can carry passengers, but not for compensation or less than your pro rata share. Other limitations to what passengers you can carry may be insurance–probably the issue with your school. A flight school’s insurance policy may easily prohibit passengers who are not students/instructors/staff but I’m not aware of any FAA regulation that imposes a similar prohibition.
     
    Your other question regarding gifts is more sticky. If your uncle could buy you a block of time as a gift (or give you $500 as a gift) and you spent that time/money taking him flying then that’s hard to prove (especially if it’s cash). What will get you in trouble is if you log time where you flew (were the only pilot) and your uncle paid for the entire flight/cost directly with his credit card. Though difficult, these things could be traced such that it can be shown that you did not pay the pro-rata share. All of this can be very tedious, however.
     
    Certainly, flights like Derek proposed happen all of the time. Usually they are very difficult to track; who asks when you walk through the FBO door about the relationship of pilot and passenger? I think what the FAA is trying to prevent is a class of unregulated commercial transport; the FAA’s objective is safety and unregulated commercial flight is anti-safe. That said, I don’t think they’re interested in what Derek and his uncle do (if this is a truly private venture). Still, it’s Derek’s responsibility to understand the regulations and keep his nose clean.

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12. 
    

    
    

    Bob Watson on Aug 12, 2011

    As far as knowing where to draw the line, it comes down to who asked whom to go flying. If the private pilot says “I’m going flying to X, do you want to go with?” and you pay, that’s cool. If you split the costs, that’s cool, too. If they pay all, that’s not cool.
    If anyone else (family, friend, coworker, etc.) says “I hear you’re a pilot, can you fly me to X, if I pay you?” That’s not cool. If you split the costs, that’s still not cool. If you pay all of the cost, it’s probably OK, just expensive. (Intent will be hard to prove in the last case).
    The main reason for the last case is that it involves you doing some flying you wouldn’t otherwise be doing (like a charter pilot). The close your flight looks like a charter, the closer to trouble you’re flying.
    Also, if the FBO finds out what you’re doing, they might decide to terminate your rental privileges to avoid any problems. (But they’d be upset with this whether you have a private or a commercial ticket).

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13. 
    

    
    

    Bob Watson on Aug 12, 2011

    Something about this post caught my eye this morning where Derek’s original poster was talking about his “rights as a private pilot.” Reading through the FARs, the only mention of “rights” that I think you’ll find, is “right-of-way.” Everything else (like carrying passengers) is referred to as a “privilege.”
    That’s the view the FAA will have when they come to revoke those privileges.
    But, for all the talk about what is and isn’t allowed, I don’t think all is lost for Derek and his desire to go flying. The key is all in how it’s transacted.
    So Derek’s uncle knows he’s a pilot and Derek knows his uncle might like to go flying on occasion. That’s cool. For this to stay cool, Derek should be the one to initiate the flight. “Hey, uncle, how about we go flying to X?” Uncle says “let’s go!” Derek rents a plane and goes flying to X with his uncle. So far, so good. When they get back, if Derek pays the FBO for the rental, no one will bat an eye. Derek, of course, will accept no more than half the rental fee from his uncle on the way home from the airport and he’ll remind his uncle that, as a private pilot, that’s the most he can accept for the trip.
    That would be 100% within the letter and the spirit of the law.

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14. 
    

    
    

    Anrboy on Jan 12, 2012

    Here is a way around that
     I have a Condo and I have friends who ask me to fly them them and they say they will pay me. I tell them I will fly them there for FREE. I cover all aviation expenses. Then I tell them that since I am taking them in the airplane they can pay me the for the condo and they pay me for the condo pro-rata what it would cost if they wanted to rent the a condo. Coincidently what they pay me for the condo is close to what it cost to fly there.
    I am recieving compensation for my Condo. Not my flying. Its pretty grey but its legal. I’m sure if you looked for something like that with your Uncle you can find it. The downside is you still end up paying the full freight for the flight but maybe you can get some rent for something you normally wouldn’t get rent for to balance it out.

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15. 
    

    
    

    ErikG on Apr 18, 2012

    From what I understand, here’s the only way it can be legal: Person A is a private pilot. Person B is a passenger.

    Person A is planning to go from X to Y. Person B also happens to want to go there at the same time. Now person A and B have a common purpose. Person A can pay as little as half the cost of the flight (including rental, fuel, oil, maintenance). Person B can possibly end up paying nothing if agreed upon by the two people, but person A must always pay at least the pro rata share of the expense.

    The following case would be illegal:

    Person B wants to go from X to Y, but Person A has no reason to go there other than for the heck of it (for flying time). Person A takes person B and still pays half the expenses. This would be illegal (you are getting half-price PIC time). Don’t know how the FAA would police this–you can make up something about having lunch with your third cousin at location Y.

    In no case may Person A pay less than the pro rata share of the total operating expenses. Period.
     

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16. 
    

    
    

    Khary Gill on Dec 22, 2015

    I too would like to clarify something that Koehn said and Andy Neumann by repeating Andy\’s very words! “You are being compensated (since you’re not paying your pro rata share of the cost of the airplane)…” In the eyes of the FAA, compensation is compensation… it doesn’t matter if it’s 10 cents, pro rata share, logging flight time towards achieving a new rating, or whatever. The key to this problem is what John mentioned–shared purpose. Even if you did pay your pro rata share, given that the purpose of the flight is air transportation of a person, and you are being hired, you would be in violation. Now, if you did pay your pro rata share and you just flew together with your uncle to different airports, I don’t know how anyone would know that it was your uncle deciding where to go and not you, but the spirit of the law is that you are not allowed to be hired like a taxi cab and told where to go. So… don’t do it. Get your commercial license and then you can be your uncle’s personal chauffeur.

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