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12 Answers

Radio etiquette

Asked by: 11873 views General Aviation, Private Pilot

I was taught when contacting ATC to let it all out on the first call with who, where and what I wanted.  I.e.  XYZ tower, Cessna 12345, 10 miles west, inbound for full stop landing with delta.  Recently, in working with an instructor for a new plane checkride, he informed me that this was incorrect.  When contacting ATC I should establish contact first then go with the request.  I.e. XYZ tower, Cessna 12345.  Cessna 345, go ahead.  XYZ tower Cessna 345 is 10 west....

I was trained out of a class delta field and the let it out all at once seemed to be accepted but it also makes sense to me to get ATC's attention first.

The question is.. Initial contact with request or just initial contact and wait for response? 

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12 Answers



  1. John Conway on Mar 08, 2011

    I can only speak for my home field of KMTN here, but when I was taking a tour of the tower and talking with the controller, they wanted us to call up and state our intentions right away to keep radio traffic down. They actually got annoyed with the helicopters flying in and out who established contact first, then went on with their intentions because it took quite a few more radio calls to get something done. 

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  2. Koehn on Mar 08, 2011

    Assuming the frequency is not too busy, the way you were originally taught is preferred. I’ve only needed to use the latter method when contacting approach or center for a flight following request, which is almost certainly a lower priority than whatever is jamming up the frequency. I tried finding a definitive reference in the AIM and was unable, but I’m sure Kent will know. 🙂

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  3. John D. Collins on Mar 08, 2011

    The AIM recommends that the initial contact with ATC be short.  See section 4-2-3.  It recommends that you use the name of the facility being contacted, your full aircraft identification, when on an airport surface – state your position, and the type of message to follow or your request “if it is short“.  This will give the controller or specialist the time to focus on your request and avoid the “Say again”.

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  4. Micah on Mar 08, 2011

    What I’ve been taught, and have taught, is that initial contact with ATC should be “Who/Who” only. Any further contact is the full “Who/Who/Where/What.” When being handed-off from one facility to the next each call is the full communication; you don’t need to be reintroduced any more than you need to waste airtime. The only exception to this that I practice and teach is a supplemental request, which I initiate as “Who/Who/ With Request.”
     
    I agree that knowing local procedure is best, but I should confess that local procedure probably directs how/why I teach this style of communication. I normally fly from a class D airspace where 1 controller is operating ground/tower/phones all at once. Unless my students are listening to both channels they can’t know who else may be talking to the controller. Also, I instruct expecting that my students will someday fly places I’ve never been and I hope to teach them both standardized procedure and how to think actively about communication. I want all of my students’ communications to be short and accurate but I always want them to finish calls (just because you’re “Cleared to land” doesn’t mean your callback should be lazy exclude the runway you expect to use to land.) In my experience, confusion and stammering and repeating calls waste much more time than anything else (although I’m chasing a bit of a tangent, so I’ll stop.)

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  5. MaggotCFII on Mar 08, 2011

    Agree with preceeding comments of;  let it all out, that seems to be what AIM 4-2-3 states, and stating your intentions right away – that is what I teach.
    Some folks are even adding their altitude to the initial contact – useful if your tower does not have radar.
    In busy Class D, especially with good weekend weather, comms can be a challenge and brevity can increase safety.
    Other thoughts on the subject are:
    Use only nouns and action verbs. Know the correct use of Roger, Wilco and Unable, read back instructions if the controller uses “cleared”.
    Rehearse before you speak – Push to talk, not to think.
    Try to learn the “tribal knowledge”, (specific idiocrasies) for your home airport as well as the individual controller’s voices, attitudes and habits.
    And use “LiveATC.net”.  That site allows monitoring of ATC all over the world. One can hear that the procedures are uniform world wide.  (For a good chuckle download a taxi chart of KJFK and listen to Ground about 5PM – talk about brevity!)
    Know that what you use at D, will be different than B or C airspace and the uncontrolled airports – different techniques/procedures at each.
    Just some thoughts – nobody knows everything in this business.

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  6. James MacGregor CFI on Mar 09, 2011

    Who I am talking to, Who I am, where I am and what I want.  If they are busy I will give a quickie and wait for them to come back requesting detail
    i.e.
     Los Angeles Center Stinson 123 15 miles S of LGB requesting IFR clearance
     
     Then when they came back I would state where I wanted to be cleared to, alt etc. etc.
     
     One of my pet peeves is when one of my guys does a Student: “Los Angeles Center, Cessna 123”  Center: “Cessna 123, LA Center, go ahead”

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  7. Kent Shook on Mar 09, 2011

    As much as I sometimes like “book” answers, use your judgement on this one – If you’re just checking in with “Faraway Center, Bugsmashwer 1234A, Level 7,000” then there’s no reason to make two calls.
     
    Two things to consider: If you can’t get it out without an “uhhh” or three, you’re transmitting too much. Also, if you’re giving too much info for the controller to be able to write down or punch into their computer accurately and they have to ask you to repeat things, it was too much.
     
    Examples: 
     
    1) I always do the following as a single call: “Metropolis Approach, Bugsmasher 1234A, <altitude> over <fix>, landing with <ATIS>.” Probably the hardest thing for them to remember is your tail number as it’s early in the transmission and they may not be quite ready for it. They’ll probably spot you on the scope as soon as you give your position, and they already know what the current ATIS is so if your checkin matches, they can forget about it. So, effective communication of the entire message can be accomplished with one call.
     
    2) I frequently do the following as multiple calls: “Metropolis Clearance, Bugsmasher 1234A.” (“Bugsmasher 34A, Metropolis Clearance, go ahead.”) “Clearance, Bugsmasher 34A is VFR to Podunk Muni at 4,500 feet, request flight following to destination and a city tour on departure.” That’s a whole lotta junk they’re going to be taking down and they need to be ready for it, especially since the Clearance controller frequently works ground control as well and might be talking to someone else.
     
    3) Flight following calls are semi-truncated. If the controller is busy, they don’t want to listen to you give your tail number, position, altitude, destination, route, etc. only to have to tell you “Unable” and then call “Break” after giving three or four airliners some rapid-fire instructions that they needed to give while you were hogging the frequency. Try “Center, Bugsmasher 1234A, <fix> request advisories to <destination>” and go from there.
     
    James, your “does a Student” may sound rookie-ish for some circumstances, but it is exactly what should happen at the beginning of a complex request – If the controller is on another frequency or the phone with another controller, they’ll miss your complex request and you’ll have to repeat the whole thing, wasting frequency time. Best to ensure they’re ready for it first.

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  8. James MacGregor on Mar 09, 2011

    Kent,

    I see what you’re saying. However just doing the bare bones two way comm is the same thing as sayingto someone “can I ask you a question”. I always feel like I just wasted 20 seconds of my life.

    Just give a quickie as to what you want and wait for ATC to request the lengthy details.

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  9. Matthew Waugh on Mar 09, 2011

    As others have said – it depends.
     
    If you’re flying an area where there are long gaps in ATC communications and plenty of spare air time – then by all means provide chapter and verse on the initial call. If you’re flying in an area where it’s hard to get a word in, then the quick “hello” call is going to work much better for the controller. If you break in and spew your life story the controller is sitting there watching converging traffic he/she can’t talk to because you won’t shut up. If you give them your name, you get on the list, and they’ll get back to you when they have time to hear your full request.
     
    Know your airspace and you can adapt to fit in – because the more you can adapt to the controllers needs the better chance you have of getting what you want.

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  10. Heather McNevin on Mar 10, 2011

    As a controller (at a Center), I have about 4 VHF frequencies and 4 UHF frequencies and often time I have the guard frequencies, so in theory I could have about 10 aircraft talking to me at the same time.  I also have hot keys where other controllers can call me and be talking directly in my ear right away.  I also have landlines where I dial and I come out over a speaker and ask for the controller I need to talk to.  I have lines to FSS that I need to dial and wait for them to answer.  Because of all of this, which  most of it you wouldnt realize is taking place, I’d recommend making your initial call brief.  If I am on a line and can’t answer my frequencies, they come out over a speaker above my head.  So the entire room hears your request. 
    Another tip, be patient.  It usually takes me less than a minute to conduct any coordination. 
    I tell my flight students to think of it like making a phone call.  You don’t call the person you want to talk to and say “Hi this is John Doe Im at home I want to go to the movies I’ll drive” all in one sentance if you dont know the other person is listening.  Get my attention first, then tell me the details.  For flight following requests, I need your N-numer, type of aircraft and equipment suffix, your destination, and I need to know if you arent going there direct.  I’ll give you a discrete beacon code, and I’ll switch you to the next frequency, just like an IFR flight.  Now, if you’re going to a towered field, and youve been on flight following, they will have been made aware you are coming.  You will not surprise them with your call.  In that case, as a pilot, I give them everything all at once.  They are expecting you to come on freq and tell them what atis you have. 
    Air Traffic Control doesnt get VFR flight plans or have easy access to that information.  So you are a surprise to us, thats why its nicest to get my attention first, I have no clue you’re coming.
    I was taught as a pilot to listen to the controllers frequency and chime in when i heard a lull in transmissions.  I agree with this to a point.  Please, listen and process what the controller is saying.  If I just gave someone a clearance off an airport, they will be reading that back to me.  If they are on a different frequency, you wont hear them; to you – its quiet. 
    I’d highly recommend visiting your local ATC facility, whether its a tower, approach, or center.  You can get contact phone numbers from FSS or the AFD.  You will need to set up your visit in advance, for security purposes.  Once you’re in, you can ask the controllers you talk to most what their preference is!

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  11. DonE on Mar 10, 2011

    All great stuff.  My thanks to everyone.  It was especially helpfull to hear from a controller, thanks Heather

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  12. Micah on Mar 10, 2011

    Thanks Heather

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