Welcome Guest. Sign in or Signup

13 Answers

Commercial Rotor Wing to Commercial Fixed Wing Aeronautical Experience

Asked by: 4218 views General Aviation

Hello,

I'm a commercial helicopter pilot and also hold a private ASEL w/ an instrument rating.

Would someone mind clarifying a few things for me regarding 61.129 and obtaining my commercial single engine?

(a) For an airplane single-engine rating. Except as provided in paragraph (i) of this section, a person who applies for a commercial pilot certificate with an airplane category and single-engine class rating must log at least 250 hours of flight time as a pilot that consists of at least:

(1) 100 hours in powered aircraft, of which 50 hours must be in airplanes.

(2) 100 hours of pilot-in-command flight time, which includes at least—

(i) 50 hours in airplanes; and

(ii) 50 hours in cross-country flight of which at least 10 hours must be in airplanes.

(3) 20 hours of training on the areas of operation listed in §61.127(b)(1) of this part that includes at least—

(i) Ten hours of instrument training using a view-limiting device including attitude instrument flying, partial panel skills, recovery from unusual flight attitudes, and intercepting and tracking navigational systems. Five hours of the 10 hours required on instrument training must be in a single engine airplane;

(ii) 10 hours of training in an airplane that has a retractable landing gear, flaps, and a controllable pitch propeller, or is turbine-powered, or for an applicant seeking a single-engine seaplane rating, 10 hours of training in a seaplane that has flaps and a controllable pitch propeller;

Does dual received in a BE20 count towards this even though it's a multi-engine aircraft? I don't see where it specifies it must be in a single engine aircraft.

(iii) One 2-hour cross country flight in a single engine airplane in daytime conditions that consists of a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure;

This must be dual received correct? Can the same cross country for the 300NM requirement below be used for this? 

(iv) One 2-hour cross country flight in a single engine airplane in nighttime conditions that consists of a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

This must be dual received correct. Also, just clarifying that I cannot use my XC for my instrument rating for this correct?

(v) Three hours in a single-engine airplane with an authorized instructor in preparation for the practical test within the preceding 2 calendar months from the month of the test.

(4) Ten hours of solo flight time in a single engine airplane or 10 hours of flight time performing the duties of pilot in command in a single engine airplane with an authorized instructor on board (either of which may be credited towards the flight time requirement under paragraph (a)(2) of this section), on the areas of operation listed under §61.127(b)(1) that include—

(i) One cross-country flight of not less than 300 nautical miles total distance, with landings at a minimum of three points, one of which is a straight-line distance of at least 250 nautical miles from the original departure point. However, if this requirement is being met in Hawaii, the longest segment need only have a straight-line distance of at least 150 nautical miles; and

Can this be dual received? Does it have to be in an airplane or does a helicopter count if it meets the distance requirement?

(ii) 5 hours in night VFR conditions with 10 takeoffs and 10 landings (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an airport with an operating control tower.

 

Thanks in advance.

Ace Any FAA Written Test!
Actual FAA Questions / Free Lifetime Updates
The best explanations in the business
Fast, efficient study.
Pass Your Checkride With Confidence!
FAA Practical Test prep that reflects actual checkrides.
Any checkride: Airplane, Helicopter, Glider, etc.
Written and maintained by actual pilot examiners and master CFIs.
The World's Most Trusted eLogbook
Be Organized, Current, Professional, and Safe.
Highly customizable - for student pilots through pros.
Free Transition Service for users of other eLogs.
Our sincere thanks to pilots such as yourself who support AskACFI while helping themselves by using the awesome PC, Mac, iPhone/iPad, and Android aviation apps of our sponsors.

13 Answers



  1. Kris Kortokrax on Aug 17, 2019

    For 61.129(a)(3)(ii), the King Air time would count. There is no language requiring that it be in a single engine airplane.

    61.129(a)(3)(iii) & (iv) are dual instruction flights. You cannot count the 300 NM flight under 61.129(a)(4)(i) toward this requirement.

    61.129(a)(4) contains the phrase “in a single engine airplane”. That phrase applies to all training requirement subordinate to that statement. So, no, you cannot count helicopter time. Nor could you count multi-engine time.

    0 Votes Thumb up 0 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes



  2. Jared Young on Aug 17, 2019

    Thank you Kris. I glazed over the 61.129(a)(4) part where it ays single engine airplane!

    As far as 61.129(a)(4)(i), it states that an authorized instructor may be on board so long as I was performing the duties of pilot in command. For this flight in my logbook, my instructor marked it as “dual received” but I was flying the aircraft. I did this flight getting my high performance and complex endorsements.

    So because he wrote “dual received” am I not able to use this flight now?

    0 Votes Thumb up 0 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes



  3. Kris Kortokrax on Aug 17, 2019

    You may not log any flight under 61.129(a)(4) as dual. There is a legal interpretation to support this.

    Now I’m confused a bit. You asked if the complex training could be done in a King Air. If you did the complex training in the King Air, you could not use that flight to satisfy 61.129(a)(4), because the King Air is a multi-engine airplane.

    Also, you should point out to your instructor that the flights under 61.129(a)(4) cannot be logged as dual. He is probably messing up a log of pilot’s logbooks.

    Also, there is an interpretation that states all the time used to satisfy 61.129(a)(4) must be either all solo or all done with an authorized instructor on board. You cannot mix the two.

    0 Votes Thumb up 0 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes



  4. Jared Young on Aug 17, 2019

    I got my high performance and complex endorsement in a Ballanca. I had an opportunity to fly it with an instructor to get my complex and HP endorsements so I did just that and he said why don’t you just do your cross country for commercial while you’re at it.

    So thats’ why we did a flight that met all the requirements of 61.129(a)(4)(i). Now I’m understanding that it cannot be logged at dual received?

    Where does the support come from that the interpretation of 61.129(a)(4) must all be solo or all with an authorized instructor on board but NOT dual received? I don’t understand that interpretation.

    The king air time came later as I already had the complex endorsement. I’m just using some of that to meet the requirement of 61.129(a)(3)(ii) since the Ballanca flight was only 7.3 hours.

    0 Votes Thumb up 0 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes



  5. Jared Young on Aug 18, 2019

    Do you have the legal interpretation for this:

    “You may not log any flight under 61.129(a)(4) as dual. There is a legal interpretation to support this.”

    Is there anyway I can get an examiner to accept a change in my logbook if I get a signed paper from the instructor stating it was done in error?

    0 Votes Thumb up 0 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes



  6. Kris Kortokrax on Aug 18, 2019

    Yes, I have a legal interpretation. I don’t make this stuff up. Mr. Kuhn’s second question deals with your question.

    https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/interpretations/Data/interps/2014/Kuhn%20-%20(2014)%20Legal%20Interpretation.pdf

    The Crowe interpretation deals with 10 hours of solo or 10 hours of time performing. It also mentions that you may only accrue 10 hours of time performing as PIC with an instructor. It is not an open ended proposition that allows you to accumulate an unlimited amount of time with an instructor (other than dual).

    https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/interpretations/Data/interps/2013/Crowe-PalmBeachHelicopters%20-%20(2013)%20Legal%20Interpretation.pdf

    0 Votes Thumb up 0 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes



  7. Jared Young on Aug 18, 2019

    My apologies if you misunderstood my asking for the proof. I wasn’t making the assumption that you made things up, I was simply trying to learn more about it and wondered where it came from.

    Do you think that an examiner would accept a letter of correction from my instructor or would it be best just to redo the whole flight?

    Can I fly the cross country flights in 61.129(a)(3)(iii) & (iv) under the hood towards my 5 hours for 61.129(a)(3)(i)

    Sorry if I’m not making sense. I’m struggling to wrap my head around what I have and what I need. It appears that I need all 20 hours required in 61.129(a)(3) since I’ve had very little training after I received my private and instrument ratings and none of that flying counts towards the 20 hours.

    Again, thank you for all your help.

    0 Votes Thumb up 0 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes



  8. Jared Young on Aug 18, 2019

    One more question. Does Actual/IMC count towards 61.129(a)(3)(i) if I was getting training/dual received in the King Air? I understand that if it does count, only 5 would count because the other 5 has to be in a single engine.

    I’m guessing the answer is no because I didn’t use a view limiting device, I was in IMC.

    0 Votes Thumb up 0 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes



  9. Kris Kortokrax on Aug 18, 2019

    Without being able to look at your logbook, it is hard to answer.

    The best course of action would be to sit down with the examiner and go over what you have, and what else might be needed.

    You don’t need a letter from your CFI, just cross out the entries in your logbook that don’t count and initial next to them. That is the accepted method for corrections (no whiteout).

    0 Votes Thumb up 0 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes



  10. Jared Young on Aug 18, 2019

    I would be in theory correcting and entry he signed though. Do you have to get “training” to get your complex and high performance endorsements?

    For that particular flight, we went up and did some pattern work at the airport and he said I was good to go and signed off for HP and complex. We then departed the area for the XC that meets 61.129(a)(4)(i).

    The problem is that I put it all as dual received whereas I should have just put about .5 as dual received. Am I able to just make that correction in my logbook and initial it myself?

    0 Votes Thumb up 0 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes



  11. Kris Kortokrax on Aug 19, 2019

    Of course you need training for Complex and High Performance. See 61.31(e) and 61.31(f).
    Note that .5 hour of flight training would not satisfy the training requirement. The regulation requires that you have “received and logged ground and flight training”. I would also question whether (without any previously logged training in complex and/or high performance airplanes) that you would be proficient with .5 hour of flight training.

    Without having logged ground training, you are not “good to go”.

    With regard to your other questions, I’m sorry, but I cannot answer them without sitting with you and your logbook. I need to see what is logged and compare it to the requirements in 61.129. As I said earlier, it would be best if you sat down with the DPE and reviewed your logbook alongside the legal interpretations I have given you.

    0 Votes Thumb up 0 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes



  12. Jared Young on Aug 19, 2019

    I misspoke and left out some information. We did do ground training. We went through the entire aircraft and the propeller and procedures a all the important emergency procedures.

    We then went out and flew 1.8. I was only guessing when I said .5 and I looked it up. It’s been over 10 years ago now but looking through my logbook, I remember what we did. We stayed local and did multiple patterns for both the propeller operations and gear actuations. Then we flew to another airport to learn climb, cruise, descents with the propeller.

    So I will just line out the dual received for the other legs of the flights and initial them and then it will be fine but I’ll check with the examiner.

    I don’t see where it specifies a time but the idea was to get familiar with it and know it and then fly the long cross country to drive the information home with him watching over.

    For 61.129(a)(3)(i), does this have to be wearing a view limiting device or does actual instrument count?

    0 Votes Thumb up 0 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes



  13. Kris Kortokrax on Aug 19, 2019

    If we go by the regulation, it says using a view limiting device. Common sense, however, would suggest that one would not wear a view limiting device if in actual IMC. I’m not suggesting that the FAA used common sense in this instance.

    I would think, though, that you would not likely be practicing unusual attitudes in actual IMC, although one could ask for a block of airspace.

    +1 Votes Thumb up 1 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes


Answer Question

Our sincere thanks to all who contribute constructively to this forum in answering flight training questions. If you are a flight instructor or represent a flight school / FBO offering flight instruction, you are welcome to include links to your site and related contact information as it pertains to offering local flight instruction in a specific geographic area. Additionally, direct links to FAA and related official government sources of information are welcome. However we thank you for your understanding that links to other sites or text that may be construed as explicit or implicit advertising of other business, sites, or goods/services are not permitted even if such links nominally are relevant to the question asked.