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7 Answers

250 MN IFR Cross Country

Asked by: 5618 views , ,
Instrument Rating

I am a volunteer safety pilot. I find it keeps me sharp but the downside it I run up against some questionable CFIIs. Maybe things have changed or maybe I was taught the wrong thing. A friend is about ready for his cross country. I put forth the idea that this should be the most complicated cross country possible. I think all students should demand this as it is a chance be in complex situations with an experienced pilot. So we discussed a plan that included 4 airports (251NM). Two airports are class D and one is class D under class C. No doubt this would have been a great learning experience. He presented it to his CFII talked him out of it with out discussion. He did not push for the complex plan. 

This CFII plans to file only one flight plan for the trip and all legs are touch-n-go at uncontrolled airports. I feel he is getting cheated as he is skipping the landings and the experience of picking his clearances. So no towers, no class D or C, no ground communications, clearances or readback. I'm wondering if he is going to learn anything!

Anyway - is it proper to file a single flight plan for an IFR cross country?

 

 

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7 Answers



  1. John D Collins on Jun 04, 2018

    How many flightplans you file and what you log in order to meet the long cross country requirements are two different issues. You don’t know what was already covered by the CFII and the regulations don’t specify that a landing take place (only approaches) nor that a portion of the flight would be to a towered airport. In fact, it is more challenging to get your clearance and a clearance void time at a non towered airport. So the question as to if a complex flightplan is to be used to satisfy the long cross country requirement is a matter of opinion and is not a regulatory issue.

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  2. Kris Kortokrax on Jun 04, 2018

    There is a requirement that at least one landing be made more than 50 NM from the departure, else it would not be a cross country flight.

    The problem that I have seen, particularly in the helicopter world, is that the flight departs on an IFR clearance and at some point, IFR is canceled. The entire flight needs to be conducted “under instrument flight rules” and 91.173 requires a clearance, in controlled airspace. Can’t think of many places where an IFR flight could be conducted in Class G.

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  3. John D Collins on Jun 04, 2018

    Kris,

    Good point on the cross country requirement for a landing > 50 NM.

    I am not as sure about IFR being cancelled. Just because a flight enters class G does not cancel the IFR flight status, that is why the controller requests cancellation in the air or on the ground when you switch to CTAF. If you decide to miss the approach, that would still count as an approach and one could come back up with ATC in controlled airspace on the miss and the flight would still be operating under IFR. A clearance for the approach is also a clearance for the missed approach unless the controller instructs an alternate procedure. Most IFR approaches end up in class G for a portion of the procedure and the commencement of the missed approach.

    Doing a touch and go, followed by a missed approach without having cancelled the IFR might be a stretch, but I don’t know if it violates any regulations. How would it be any different from a circling maneuver that one decided to go missed. I am interested in your thoughts.

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  4. Kris Kortokrax on Jun 04, 2018

    I’m sorry. I was unclear. I did not mean to imply that descending into Class G would result in cancelling IFR. Merely observing that many instructors start out on the cross country under a clearance and then for some reason (convenience, not wanting to deal with ATC) cancel IFR and continue the trip while simulating ATC.

    I would bet, though, that few instrument pilots are familiar with a “through clearance”.

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  5. Stephen Kaloroplos on Jun 04, 2018

    Sorry, I did not mean to imply there was a requirement to land at a controlled airport only that it is a better learning experience. Nor did I mean to imply that a complex flight is a requirement. I did mean to say there are education benefits garnered from complex flight plan.

    With cell phone in hand getting a clearance at a non-towered airport isn’t much of a challenge. I believe flying in and out of controlled airspace is better and the read-back is the same. But understand what I was saying. There will be only one flight plan, not three. So there will be only one read-back.

    I know an instructor that files a local IFR on every training flight and while I have heard talk of ’round robin’ flight plans I don’t know anyone who has filed one. Are they kosher?

    I now understand just how good an instructor I had and I think there should be more like him. He purposely waited and waited and finally called me. Conditions were right. I did a very complex cross country and didn’t see sunlight until the last 30 minutes. What an experience.

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  6. Stephen Kaloroplos on Jun 04, 2018

    Sorry, I did not mean to imply there was a requirement to land at a controlled airport only that it is a better learning experience. Nor did I mean to imply that a complex flight is a requirement. I did mean to say there are education benefits garnered from complex flight plan.

    With cell phone in hand getting a clearance at a non-towered airport isn\’t much of a challenge. I believe flying in and out of controlled airspace is better and the read-back is the same. But understand what I was saying. There will be only one flight plan, not three. So there will be only one read-back.

    I know an instructor that files a local IFR on every training flight and while I have heard talk of \’round robin\’ flight plans I don\’t know anyone who has filed one. Are they kosher?

    I now understand just how good an instructor I had and I think there should be more like him. He purposely waited and waited and finally called me. Conditions were right. I did a very complex cross country and didn\’t see sunlight until the last 30 minutes. What an experience.

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  7. Mark Kolber on Jun 05, 2018

    while I have heard talk of \’round robin\’ flight plans I don\’t know anyone who has filed one. Are they kosher?
    Why not?

    For the IFR cross country requirement, I want to file to the airport of intended landing. Not so much a requirement but for the experience factor. If we are working out of a towered airport, I want the student to have the experience of cancelling IFR at one of those and calling for a void time clearance . And vice versa. I also do round robin IFR plans regularly for practice, when I don’t plan on landing at any of the airports I fly approaches to.

    Sorry, I don’t really buy into the need for a “complex route” filing. Two reasons. First, it’s not realistic. Web sites and (some) EFB apps have recently cleared actual routes available. Learning about their availability is at least as important as creating some multiple turn airway routing the pilot might never see in the real world. Second, the complexity of a cross country IFR flight is less in the filing stage or in flying a clearance that never varies, than in the back and forth with ATC, including deviations for weather or traffic, amended clearances.

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