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7 Answers

Does a CFI/I check ride count as an IPC?

Asked by: 11352 views FAA Regulations, Flight Instructor, Instrument Rating

I am about to complete my CFI/I check ride and I wanted to know if it can replace having to do an IPC?

I know my instructor can just give me the endorsement but I wanted to get clarification on whether the check ride does in fact take care of it. 

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7 Answers



  1. Loral on Nov 19, 2016

    CFI’s like you that ask these kind of questions make my head hurt. Are you not familiar with the FAR’s?

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  2. Mark Kolber on Nov 20, 2016

    So, Loral, exactly which FAR gives a clear answer to that one, and what is the answer it gives?

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  3. Mark Kolber on Nov 21, 2016

    Since Loral hasn’t come back (yet) to point out the rule, here’s my very unofficial take. In the absence of an official answer, I agree with your CFII’s decision to give you the IPC sign off.

    Unlike the updated rule for flight review substitution, 61.57 does not provide an exemption for a CFII ride in lieu of an IPC. So I think we are in the same territory as the CFI Practical before its ammendment a few years ago. Unclear and subject to interpretation. Makes absolute sense it’s “should” count since the PTS tasks include demonstrating the maneuvers, but there will be those who say it doesn’t.

    BTW, keep in mind there is no FAR rule that specifically says getting an instrument rating starts the clock either. Silly as it may sound, someone actually asked the Chief Counsel’s office about that one and they said it did (https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/pol_adjudication/agc200/interpretations/data/interps/2008/wynne%20-%20(2008)%20legal%20interpretation.pdf).

    So I strongly suspect that, if asked, the FAA would say, “of course it counts” but I applaud your CFI’s caution.

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  4. Loral on Nov 21, 2016

    Mark, the reason I hadn’t answered your post is because I don’t live on the internet and this is the first time I’ve been back on. I guess I could have worded my post differently, but I agree with you. Where does it say in the FAR’s that a II ride resets your instrument currency? It doesn’t. That was my point.

    Think the bigger problem is how far “out of currency” is the OP? 6 months, inside 12 months, or out over 12 months. That knowledge changes what needs to be done. And I agree that training for the II more than compensates for an ICC and if needed, he should have had his instructor make the appropriate logbook entry. Common sense. But we both know the FAA doesn’t deal in common sense and unlike the Flight Review where there are various ways to accomplish it, the regs say nothing like that for instrument currency. The OP should have learned the answer to his question when obtaining his initial instrument rating one would think. Definitely ought to know the answer now while going for the II ride and not having to ask the question here. All I know is if the OP is out of currency over 12 months and he shows up at the DPE without a logbook endorsement for the ICC, the examiners I know would eat him for lunch. If that were the case, according to the FAR’s he couldn’t even act as PIC on his ride.

    By the way, according to a DPE I presented this question to, his answer was no, it does not.

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  5. Mark Kolber on Nov 21, 2016

    It wasn’t a flame on you, Loral. I was going to give my answer without waiting, but decided on a short wait to see if you came back quickly. No problem that you didn’t but I decided the question deserved a timely answer.

    DPE answers don’t count (except, of course, during a checkride :D). To a large degree neither do FSDO answers. Before the rule ion flight reviews was changed, you got different answers from different parts of the FAA. Different FSDO districts had different answers.

    Guessing what the answer might be is just that, a guess.

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  6. Bill Zaleski on Nov 21, 2016

    Here is my worthless undocumented opinion on this:

    An IPC must be administered according to the IPC task table contained in the current instrument rating ACS. This table addresses the minimum tasks that must be addressed.

    These tasks contain tolerances such as altitude, heading, and airspeed that must/should be adhered to, in order to be considered successfully accomplished.

    The PTS for the CFII practical test has no tolerances at all for the performance of any of the areas of operation.

    Since it does not comply with the task table requirements, I cannot see how the CFII checkride can, by itself, constitute a valid IPC.

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  7. Mark Kolber on Nov 24, 2016

    I’m not sure that’s completely correct, Bill. There are tolerances. The CFII PTS requires the demonstration of each task and “The TASK demonstration must be to the INSTRUMENT PILOT skill level.”

    I’m not disagreeing with your bottom line, though. Your guess is at least as good as mine. And you bring up a good point about the task table. I haven’t compared the two to see if all required IPC tasks are also required on the CFII ride,

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