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6 Answers

Failed Checkride for Emergency Landing

Asked by: 6842 views ,
Student Pilot

Hello,

I busted my checkride flight portion. The winds forecasted to gust up a little down the runways of my intended airport to do the short/soft as well as home airport. The examiner came a little early and the plane was still out being flown. 

When the plane came back, examiner told me to pre-flight and come back for a briefing for the flight portion. I did a thorough pre-flight check and also was cleaning the windshield at the end. Examiner comes and says "Wow...you are cleaning the windshield...that will make me as an examiner very happy! I brought the plane notebook and we can go when you're done." I responded "Sir, I left my briefcase at the airport terminal and will need to get it" as I thought we were going to brief the flight as per his instruction? He responded "Okay...you get that and I'll just sit here and look at planes while you're getting it."

I went and got my briefcase and came back. Started checklist, passenger briefing, and started engine. Went over to run up after getting cleared to taxi and heard him talk negative comments on the tower folks at our airport. I didn't care and was just paying attention on center line of taxi b/c I think he was trying to distract me. 

Got to pre-take off run up area and there was no space for me to perform the run-up, so he asked me to just point the plane with the tail wind to not block taxi way. He then took controls and positioned the a/c. I thought I failed right there. Then I saw some of the other planes scooch up and I went behind them and aligned the plane to the wind as I have always trained for (I have over 120 hours of flight time now). 

During the pre-take off checklist, I paid particular close attention to each check methodolically. When it came to the flight controls free and correct, I pulled it out all the way and twisted it and back in and then wanted to also check my rudder and ailerons just one more time. He got angry and said "You are taking way too long on this checklist...you need to be faster...just do it one time" and angrily took the yoke out and back in and told me to be faster. Again, I thought he was distracting me so I just ignored and complied.

Got clearance to take-off after following checklist and goofed up crosswind take off by not pointing aileron to correct side. I was frazzled and it was a short-field take off. Corrected mistake and leveled-off and then did a successful short-field takeoff. He acknowledged saying it was a good take off. 

Did all the hood work, manuevers successfully after finding my first checkpoint along with VOR. He pulled engine out and I got to max glide speed. I took too long to find a point and didn't turn into the wind. Finally found a point and he made me question my field and kept on distracting me. At this point I got frazzled and knew I wasn't doing well. I picked a field that had a powerline. After I corrected and turned into wind of my field I was looking for a better field and he said "You are being too indecesisive and that will kill you." From the youtube videos I've seen of actual emergencies, I see that folks second guess all thet ime and always try to find a better field to land. Oh well. Was a bit high around 2400 ft, but I kenw I could make the field and avoid the obstacles like power line. He said "Ok that's enough..." and put full power on and told me to recover.

He then asks with a smile "You comfortable with xwind landings?" I said "yes." He asks me to go a nearby tower airport and I checked gps we were only 7 miles away. Called tower and got cleared for right base for runway. The winds were coming from 330 at 18 knots gusting to 24 (I later got this accurate reading after I landed checking the winds at the airport from the TAF / Metars around that timeframe). RUnway was 26. This was a huge xwind. Made my calls and tried to check the winds again before i turned left base, and he told me "No, u don't need to check weather...u r too precise..." Technically, I never checked weather myself he said he knows winds are from the "north" and that's sufficient. Anyways, I landed successfully, but way left of centerline. I would have failed myself. Felt beat up and like crap at this point.

"At this point this is lesson and you have to repeat landings and emergency situation with me." He demonstrated a landing, but then on the touch and go put full power in and then flaps up versus flaps up and then full power on. Plane purpoised back down and hit nose wheel. At that point, I realized this guy is a bit macho and isn't safe...I just want to get home and go on my vacation.

Got back to airport, he gave me pink slip and then explained emergency scenario and he was expecting I turn immediately into the wind and continue looking for a better field. I didn't care at this point. Told me he can come back in a few days, but told him I have planned vacation for about a week and need to come back and practice thoroughly before going up with him again. So it may be 2-3 weeks. He got quiet and said he will be avail to me and it will be a quick flight and he will issue my private pilot license.

Called another instructor who I have been flying with and he was not happy that the examiner would even attempt for me to land at a place where the xwind was higher than max xwind for the cessna 172 found in the POH. Also said he was probably going to fail me regardless of emregency performance.

I acknoweldge I goofed up on emergency procedures and wasn't happy with my own performance, but not happy that he put me at an airport that has high xwind and wouldn't allow me to check winds. Granted, I should have done a go around, but why put a private pilot in a situation where failure is probably immenint and also rush through checklist?

I'm going to relax for about a week on vacation and then go back up and get it done, but a little disturbed a FAA rep is trying to say I should go faster through checklist and also put me in a situation that is not safe during a checkride. I think on that day both the examiner and me failed the checkride lol.

Do you think I should go with the same DPE or get another DPE?

 

 

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6 Answers



  1. Kris Kortokrax on Nov 08, 2016

    The first thing to do is to print out this post and take it the your local FSDO. The DPEs Principal Inspector needs to know how this DPE is conducting checks. What he is doing is not in accordance with Order 8900.2.

    The second thing to do is to find another DPE. The Notice of Disapproval should outline what tasks need to be evaluated during the retest. Any DPE or FAA inspector can perform the retest.

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  2. oldstudentppl on Nov 08, 2016

    Hello Kris,
    I briefly skimmed through Order 8900.2. Just trying to gather my facts here…I’m thinking the DPE made the following mistakes:

    1. DPE did not brief me on the detailed flight portion as he instructed he would before we got into the plane. Note, he did tell me to fly my first heading after we completed the pre-take-off checklist.

    2. DPE asked me in a general sense if I’m comfortable with xwind landings, which I acknowledged yes, but then had me attempt a landing at an airport with a crosswind higher than the maximum xwind component annotated in the Cessna 172R POH.

    3. DPE attempted to conduct a flying “lesson” successfully showing a xwind landing, but then on the touch and go failed to put flaps up before full power in, which immediately resulted in the nose going down and the “bounce” effect of the nose wheel hitting the ground.

    Anything else that is not in accordance with Order 8900.2?

    I’m trying to not over-analyze this situation, and hope it’s not weird after I contact another DPE. I’m even debating if I can go to another State to get this done just to avoid this DPE from contacting another DPE as I’m sure they all talk to each other.

    Man, this is NOT the way I wanted to get my license…

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  3. HardLandings on Nov 09, 2016

    My first thought is that your instructor that signed you off to take your checkride shouldn’t have sent you out with such a wild card in the first place. You’ve got to get an endorsement to restest, perhaps you should find a more seasoned instructor who has some indications on the reputations of the various DPE’s in your area.

    My second thought I should probably sit on for a little while…

    JB

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  4. oldstudentppl on Nov 09, 2016

    Hello Hardlandings,
    Very interesting perspective.

    For point #1, they all warned me lol. The other DPE wasn’t avail for 2 months and I guess I’m a little impatient ESP with December weather (snow in the area I am from comes during this time with high winds).

    #2. My cfi is a rockstar, and he tried his best to prevent me, but also understood with the timing. In fact he tried to get me on a ride w the other DPE as a fill in, but that DPE had other alternatives.

    Regardless, why does the system have to be so political where you have to understand reputations of DPEs? I trust in the integrity of the process and system and just think this is an issue of a failure to comply to standards, rules and regulations, and knowing basic safety with crosswind landings in accordance to the poh of the aircraft.

    I will get another DPE hopefully, and will get my dream to come true soon enough!

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  5. Kris Kortokrax on Nov 10, 2016

    The big problems with the DPE are:

    1. His demeanor. He should be more patient (you are paying him for his time) and should not be taking the controls, unless it is a safety of flight issue. If he has to take the controls for this reason, the test is over.

    2. He is required to observe you conducting the preflight and did not do that.

    3. He is required to give you three briefings. The pretest briefing, the preflight briefing and the post flight briefing. Of these, I consider the preflight briefing to be the most important. During this brief, you discuss things like traffic scanning and collision avoidance, transfer of controls and how emergencies will be simulated.

    Youtube, no matter how popular, should not be considered as a source of training. Once you have selected a field for an emergency landing, don’t be tempted to divert to another. Also, I would not be a slave to landing into the wind. If there is a longer field available that I could use, but it would require a crosswind landing, I would choose the longer field.

    You seem to have a misconception concerning the maximum demonstrated crosswind component listed in the POH. It is not listed in the limitations section of the POH and therefore is not a limitation. It is a certification requirement for the airplane. The manufacturer must demonstrate that the airplane is controllable with a 90 degree crosswind component equal to 0.2 times the stalling speed in the landing configuration (Vso). Now, consider, if you are an airplane manufacturer and are performing certification tests, do you think that you would meet the minimum standard (as pilots are allowed to do during a checkride) or would you keep testing until you found the absolute maximum that your test pilot could achieve? Most of the certification testing done for aircraft requires that the test pilot only use “average pilot skills”. If you were a lawyer for the airplane manufacturer, would you advise him to demonstrate the absolute maximum crosswind and then list it in the POH? This would generate a lot more lawsuits against manufacturers by pilots who would attempt a landing in the maximum listed crosswind and fail, not because of the airplane design, but because of their lack of ability.

    If I had my way, which I don’t, I would not issue a pilot certificate to anyone who has not demonstrated the ability to land in a crosswind. I would want to see more than a 2 or 3 knot crosswind. There are far too many accidents which result from a loss of directional control on the runway. Note that the new ACS (as did the PTS before it) requires that the airplane be “over the center line” on touchdown. I would attribute your lack of ability with crosswinds to either lack of sufficient instruction or poor instruction.

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  6. Skyfox on Nov 14, 2016

    Two big red flags that I see are that he thought you were going too slow in your preflight check and runup, and saying you’re being “too precise” when it comes to the weather. Oh, and making you land with a crosswind higher than the C172 maximum demonstrated crosswind component is another huge red flag. (You should have refused that landing based on that fact, and as PIC that is definitely within your authority.) Any DPE worth his wings should WANT to see a new pilot being slow, methodical, and precise. When they see someone rushing a preflight or not paying enough attention to the weather and winds, that’s when they see problems. Also, the amount of intimidation he used when on this checkride is uncalled for, considering you’re going for a PPL, not an ATP. My PPL checkride examiner was a big blowhard who was very intimidating and made me feel like total crap; even though I passed, I was practically in tears on my flight back home after dropping him off at his home base airport. Some time later I found out he’d been giving terrible checkrides to other people and eventually lost his license as a checkride examiner.

    I agree with the above recommendation that you bring all this information to the FSDO. Private pilots do not need people like that giving them checkrides and making them doubt their abilities, abandon good training, and putting them into risky situations. Get a little bit more training with your CFI and then go find a different examiner to finish things up. You may even want to go over some of the other things with that other examiner just to make sure Captain Hurryup didn’t screw up anything else.

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