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7 Answers

Checkride retest

Asked by: 30861 views General Aviation

Sorry to bring this up again, but the earlier thread about this didn't clear up some ambiguities in the FAR. The question: after an initial failed checkride, how long do I have before I must take the retest? FAR 61.43 (f) (1) says there's 60-day time limit after a discontinuance; it doesn’t mention retest. 61.39 (f), which is about partial completion, says the remainder has to be completed within 2 calendar months after the month the applicant began the test. It doesn't mention retest either. 61.49 (a), which talks about the retest, doesn’t mention a time limit at all. So either it's 1) 60 days, 2) 2 calendar months after the month of the original test, or 3) there's no limit. Here are the relevant FAR sections:


  §61.43 Practical tests: General procedures. (f) If a practical test is discontinued, the applicant is entitled credit for those areas of operation that were passed, but only if the applicant: (1) Passes the remainder of the practical test within the 60-day period after the date the practical test was discontinued; §61.49 Retesting after failure. (a) An applicant for a knowledge or practical test who fails that test may reapply for the test only after the applicant has received: (1) The necessary training from an authorized instructor who has determined that the applicant is proficient to pass the test; and (2) An endorsement from an authorized instructor who gave the applicant the additional training §61.39 Prerequisites for practical tests. (f) If all increments of the practical test for a certificate or rating are not completed on the same date, then all the remaining increments of the test must be completed within 2 calendar months after the month the applicant began the test.

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7 Answers



  1. Tyler Connell on Jan 19, 2016

    Harry,

    Good question. After digging up some official documents lets dig a little deeper into your question. First 61.43 (f)(1) is the amount of time required to complete a checkride that was DISCONTINUED…meaning cancelled for weather, personal reasons, maintenance, etc. That is not a failure and you’d follow that reg for how long you have to finish your checkride.

    Now, 61.49 tells you what you must complete BEFORE you take the retest. You probably already all knew that.

    Now looking at the FAA published DPE handbook, you can go to page 5-18 and look at option C for ISSUANCE OF FAA FORM 8060-5, NOTICE OF DISAPPROVAL OF APPLICATION.

    C. Credit Given for Satisfactorily Completed Areas of
    Operation or Tasks.
    An applicant for retesting may receive
    credit for those areas of operati
    on satisfactorily completed;
    however, an examiner may re-e
    xamine an applicant on any
    area of operation required fo
    r the certificate or rating
    sought. If an examiner has reason to doubt an applicant’s
    competence in areas of operation for which the applicant
    received credit during a previous test, or if more than
    60 days have elapsed since the previous practical test, the
    examiner must re-examine the applicant on all areas of
    operation required for that cert
    ificate or rating. Applicants
    who do not have their FAA Form 8060-5 must take the
    entire practical test. The applicant may obtain a duplicate
    FAA Form 8060-5 from AFS-760 or the issuing pilot
    examiner.

    So to answer your question, it’s 60 days…but that’s all determined on what your examiner stated that you “passed” and will not be asked on the following checkride. That being said, he CAN ask you about it or have you do the maneuver again even if it looked good on the first checkride. So technically, it’s all free game even on your recheck. Typically if it’s one or two areas, they will just do that and some other minor points. If you continued to make mistakes, they might just require doing the entire checkride over. That’s a case by case situation.

    My suggestion, get your retraining done ASAP and go back in there with confidence and get it done. Do not wait and start giving yourself negative thoughts that you cannot pass the checkride. We all learn from our mistakes.

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  2. Tyler Connell on Jan 19, 2016

    Sorry, here is the reference if you care to read the actual document.

    http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/ND/Order%208710.3E_CHG1_Ch5.pdf

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  3. Kris Kortokrax on Jan 20, 2016

    Tyler,

    Harry apparently understood that 61.43(f) dealt with a discontinuance. He bolded that text.
    He also mentioned 61.39(f), but should really have looked at 61.39(g), which states:

    “If all increments of the practical test for a certificate or rating are not completed within 2 calendar months after the month the applicant began the test, the applicant must retake the entire practical test.”

    This regulation does not refer to a discontinuance. The only purpose for 61.39(g) would be to address failure of a practical test. If not, then there would truly exist an ambiguity in the regulations as Harry suggested.

    The text of 61.43(e) is confusing in that failure of the practical test is not a discontinuance. In the case of a discontinuance, there is no need to get any further training (the test was not stopped because of unsatisfactory performance) and there is no need to fill out a new 8710-1 or secure any endorsements to resume the practical test.

    In the case of a failure, there is a need to fill out a new 8710-1 and get remedial training and to have the flight instructor endorse the applicant again for the retest (a new test, not resumption of the original test).

    Also, it has been many years since the 8710.3E was the handbook for examiners. The current guidance for examiners is Order 8900.2A dated March 31, 2015. It is available at fsims.faa.gov.

    Given that there might be a difference between the regulation and the order, the regulation will always take precedence.

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  4. Tyler Connell on Jan 20, 2016

    Kris, thank you for the updated manual. If you actually read this it hasn’t changed drastically enough from my original posting. The wording is different but the overall concept is the same. While I do agree that a regulation has more authority than a FAA Order, this is still mandated documentation about the procedures that DPE’s are required to follow. It even states that in the first sentence of the order — “.
    This order provides mandatory standardized procedures and policy
    for those who administer aviation mechanic, parachute rigger, or pilot oral and practical tests, as
    well as issue Temporary Airman Certificates.”

    (2)
    For the DPRE: Applicants who apply for retesting within 60 calendar

    days to the
    same DPRE who administered the failed test may, at the option of the DPRE, be tested in only
    the task(s) failed or
    that were not taken on the previous test, provided the applicant has
    succe
    ssfully passed all other tasks.
    Note:
    During a retest and at the discretion of the DPRE, any task may be
    re-evaluated, inc
    luding those previously passed

    I was not trying to doubt that Harry didn’t understand the text of a discontiuned checkride but just reiterating that he was correct in that statement. Also, in short you can simply state that you just follow 61.39 (g) but, that isn’t always the case…as I explained his answer would be more of a case by case situation. Also, if he chooses to take the exam with another DPE, they don’t have to honor his previous passed areas and could require the entire checkride to be completed again…something I’ve also seen.

    I wouldn’t encourage giving Harry a simple answer as 2 calendar months, when the situation could have many altering factors.

    Thanks for the updated document and correcting my mistake on the FAR’s. I will highlight that one for my future reference.

    Safe travels all and good luck on the retake, Harry…if this was for you!

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  5. Harry Saddler on Jan 20, 2016

    Thanks for the close textual analysis. Perhaps we could get a constitutional lawyer to discuss the ‘original intent of the framers’ or in this case the FAA…

    Anyway, it seems reasonably clear that after 60 days, I’d be required to re-do the practical test (and by the way — I assume that ‘practical test’ means ‘everything’, but let me know if I’m wrong).

    Also, regarding the FAA order:

    “Applicants who apply for retesting within 60 calendar days to the same DPRE who administered the failed test may, at the option of the DPRE, be tested in only
    the task(s) failed”.

    I infer that retesting with a different examiner even before the 60-day cutoff would require me to re-do the whole practical test. A new examiner can’t honor previously passed areas.

    Message received.

    Re Tyler’s comment about getting it done ASAP — I’d like nothing better, but I’m waiting on DPE availability and acceptable weather. Too bad there’s no provision for those things.

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  6. Kris Kortokrax on Jan 21, 2016

    Tyler,

    What would make you think I had not read 8900.2A? I never suggested that it said anything substantially different than the old 8710.3E.

    I did notice that the text you cut and pasted comes from page 6-27 and refers to DPREs. Harry is not applying for a parachute rigger certificate.

    The correct text appears on pages 7-37 & 7-38.

    If you do a simple word search of Order 8900.2A for “60 calendar days” you will find numerous instances requiring instruction to have been given within 60 calendar days and for the endorsements to have been given within 60 calendar days. The regulations (61.39, 61.109, 61.65, et al) all speak of the 2 calendar month period, not 60 calendar days. That is what I was alluding to when I stated that the regulation trumps the Order.

    If they got this wrong in the order, what makes you think that they might not have gotten it wrong concerning the retest?

    Harry,

    Your inference that you would need to do the complete practical if you switch examiners is incorrect. The Notice of Disapproval lists the maneuvers that must be retested. As it states in the Order, the examiner must retest these items. He may choose to retest others, or not. If you mess up on a maneuver (such as a takeoff or landing) that was successfully done on the prior test, that might be cause for another failure, even though the maneuver is not listed on the notice of disapproval.

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  7. Tyler Connell on Jan 21, 2016

    Kris,

    My mistake for the copy and paste from the wrong subject area of the Order. I was not inferring that you had not read it or that you were wrong. I may have come off in a wrong way.

    Thanks for the correction of my mistake and extra digging.

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