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ATP Signoff question

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FAA Regulations

Can an ATP acting as supervising pilot in command, in an aircraft requiring more than one pilot, certify PIC training in the SIC's(who is acting as PIC while under supervision) logbook and attest to it with his/her signature and ATPL number?

FAR 61.51 (e)(1)(iv)(D) states :

    The supervising pilot in command logs the pilot in command training in the pilot's logbook, certifies the pilot in command training in the pilot's logbook and attests to that certification with his or her signature, and flight instructor certificate number.

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3 Answers



  1. Kris Kortokrax on May 15, 2014

    61.51 (e)(1)(iv)(D) is not a standalone paragraph. All the stipulations is 61.51 (e)(1)(iv) A through D must be met.

    A You must already hold a Commercial or ATP and
    B You must be flying under an approved training program (135 or 121) and
    C The supervising pilot must hold a Commercial and CFI or ATP and
    D The supervising pilot must certify the training.

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  2. AviatrixPR on May 15, 2014

    Thank you Kris.
    But having met all the requirements under 61.51(e)(1)(iv), can an ATP certificate holder certify the training in the SIC’s logbook with his/her signature and ATP CERTIFICATE NUMBER instead of a “FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR CERTIFICATE NUMBER”, as stated in FAR 61.51 (e)(1)(iv)(D)?
    This is a bit confusing since, the supervising pilot is required to have either a CPL and appropriate flight instructor certificate or an ATP certificate. But FAR 61.51 (e)(1)(iv)(D), mentions that the supervising pilot needs to attest to the training provided with his/her signature and flight instructor number. What if the supervising pilot does not have the appropriate flight instructor certificate but is an ATP certificate holder?

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  3. Kris Kortokrax on May 16, 2014

    The training must be done in accordance with a Pilot in Command training program developed by the holder of and Air Carrier certificate (121 or 135) and approved by the FAA.

    Both the ATP and the trainee must be employees of the Air Carrier.

    The ATP must have undergone training by the Air Carrier to be a company instructor.

    The trainee must have undergone training to serve as an SIC for the Air Carrier and have passed the flight check required by 135.293 or 121.441.

    Since the ATP is providing instruction in air transportation service, he may endorse the trainee’s logbook as provided in 61.167 (b).

    Since this occurs under an approved training program, it is not an open-ended method for the trainee to log an unspecified amount of time.

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