Mode C for checkride

10 Answers

1. 
   

   
   

   Ash on Dec 20, 2013

   As long as you remain outside of airspace requiring a Mode C transponder (30 nautical mile veil around class B, in and above class C, above 10,000 MSL) I do not believe you need a transponder at all to file and fly an IFR flight plan. See 14 CFR 91.205(d) for instruments and equipment needed for IFR flight. Transponder is not on the list.

   Someone please correct me if I’m wrong!

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2. 
   

   
   

   Ash on Dec 20, 2013

   One more thing. Even if the transponder is not required for the airspace you will be operating in, you still need to work through 14 CFR 91.213 to properly deactive the inop transponder and document the work in the airplane log.

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3. 
   

   
   

   Cody Barringer on Dec 20, 2013

   Well transponder is working apart from Mode C, so I guess I could just placard “No Mode C”? I know ATC is going to ask about it, they always do and when I say no, they just have me report altitudes as needed.

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4. 
   

   
   

   Sam Dawson on Dec 20, 2013

   I don’t have the PTS and 8900 in front of me, but there is more than just an inop sticker involved. If I remember correctly any inop items must be annotated in the maintenance logs and the DE is required to check it.

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5. 
   

   
   

   Ash on Dec 20, 2013

   Cody,

   I’m afraid I may have mispoke earlier. Read 14 CFR 91.411 (altimeter system and altitude reporting equipment tests and inspections for IFR operations). Looks like a transponder with Mode C capabilities might be required after all:

   “(a) No person may operate an airplane, or helicopter, in controlled airspace under IFR unless—(1) Within the preceding 24 calendar months, each static pressure system, each altimeter instrument, and each automatic pressure altitude reporting system has been tested and inspected and found to comply with appendices E and F of part 43 of this chapter;”

   I’m assuming that “automatic pressure altitude reporting system ” is referring to Mode C.

   Can anyone verify this?

   Whatever the case, get the owner/operator involved in figuring this out before your checkride. I’d even consider calling up the DE to ask for their opinion. Good luck!

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6. 
   

   
   

   John D Collins on Dec 21, 2013

   Ash,

   I think your initial conclusion is correct. I presume that the altimeter, static system, and encoding altimeter were checked within the previous 24 months and were found in compliance, thus satisfying 91.411(a)(1). Subsequent to that time, the encoder failed. When it is repaired, the appropriate parts of the 24 month tests will have to be performed again as required in 91.411(a)(3). In the mean time the aircraft can be operated if it is in compliance with “91.213 Inoperative instruments and equipment”, “91.215 ATC transponder and altitude reporting equipment and use”, and “91.205 Powered civil aircraft with standard category U.S. airworthiness certificates: Instrument and equipment requirements.”

   The applicant should discuss this with the DE prior to the practical test as the DE might otherwise plan flight where an encoder is required. The IR PTS states the following:

   “The instrument rating applicant is required by 14 CFR part 61 to provide an airworthy, certificated aircraft for use during the practical test. Its operating limitations must not prohibit the TASKS required on the practical test.”

   “NOTE: If any avionics/navigation unit, including GPS, in the aircraft used for the practical test is placarded inoperative, the examiner will review the maintenance log to verify that the discrepancy has been properly documented.”

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7. 
   

   
   

   Cody Barringer on Dec 21, 2013

   Ok. The Transonder and altimeter checks are up to date, as well as annual, etc, but the Mode C capability was not checked by the repair center, and I found out from ATC during my flights.
   Mode C is not required for IFR or any of the airspace I will be in, so that leaves me with 91.213 – “the cockpit control placarded, and the maintenance recorded in accordance with Sec. 43.9 of this chapter”
   I will call the DE to make sure that we won’t need it, then the repair center to have them placard and log “Mode C Inop.”

   Last time we were on the phone he did ask me about my navigation systems (i.e. Dual VOR, ILS and DME) but not about the transponder.

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8. 
   

   
   

   Jhetter on Dec 21, 2013

   What I have taken away from the last post is that Mode C is “NOT” required for IFR flight….???

   What I think you meant to say is that you received authorization from ATC to operate an aircraft without an operating automatic pressure altitude reporting equipment having a Mode C capability.

   If that is the case how did you go about requesting that? Did you call him on the radio or phone?

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9. 
   

   
   

   Cody Barringer on Dec 22, 2013

   In 91.205 a transponder of any kind is not listed for VFR or IFR flight. Part 91.215 mentions times when Mode C is needed and IFR flight is nowhere in there.
   Over the past half-dozen flights or so I just go about my business and if there comes a time ATC needs my altitude they tell me “you’re not showing mode C” and I reply something along the lines of “I have no mode C” and that’s that. Later on if they need to know when a I arrive at a certain altitude they tell me to report it at the same time as when they assign it.

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10. Best Answer
    
    

    
    

    John D Collins on Dec 23, 2013

    Jhetter, a mode C transponder is not required for flight in much of controlled airspace. A transponder with mode C is required above 10,000 MSL, in class C and B airspace, the 30 NM class B veil and the airspace above the class C and B airspace. There are a few exceptions and you can read the detail in 91.215. Outside the required areas, a transponder of any type is not required.

    If one does have a transponder (with or without mode C) and it complies with 91.413 (the 24 calendar month check), it must be kept on anytime inside controlled airspace. This means that if the transponder is functional but outside of the 24 calender month check requirement it must be kept off until the check is complied with and one may not enter the areas that require a mode C transponder (VFR or IFR). There are exceptions to this rule as well.

    Although a transponder is not required for IFR flight, an altimeter, static system, and encoder are required to meet the 91.411 24 calendar month check requirements. These requirements are spelled out in appendix E of part 43 of the regulations. One of the requirements is that the altimeter and encoder must match one another within certain tolerances. If the encoder fails and needs maintenance, only certain parts of part 43 Appendix E need to be accomplished after the repair of the encoder. In the mean time, the aircraft can be made airworthy by following the requirements of 91.213 dealing with inoperative components.

    Assuming 91.213 has been complied with, the aircraft may be flown IFR without mode C being operative as long as the aircraft remains clear of airspace that requires its use. This also applies if the transponder is inoperative. In either of these cases 91.215 permits exceptions to allow the aircraft to fly into an area where the encoder is required.

    If a transponder is not required for a given flight, no ATC permission is needed. ATC has procedures to identify and track non transponder equipped aircraft as well as those aircraft that have a transponder but are not mode C capable. The latter case is the easier one for ATC to handle in that they need the pilot to confirm their altitudes more often than with a mode C transponder equipped aircraft. If the aircraft is not equipped with a transponder or it is inoperative, then ATC will ask the pilot to make turns to headings for the purpose of identifying their location and rely more on position reports over navaids or fixes. In other words, ATC procedures are different for non transponder or mode C capable aircraft, but permission isn’t involved unless you wish to fly into an area where a mode C transponder is required.

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