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8 Answers

Aileron nervousness

Asked by: 6903 views General Aviation, Private Pilot, Student Pilot

Hi, I've seen some pilots who use the ailerons too much as if they must react to each state-change of the plane. The specific behaviour is not usefull because moving it up and down again, repeatedly, will not do much for the direction of the plane. Example here. What would you tell a student on how to lose that behaviour? Thanks, David

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8 Answers



  1. Mark Kolber on Sep 29, 2013

    David, I’d say this is one that calls for a demonstration rather than explanation by the CFI.

    One day when I was working on my CFI, my instructor and I were heading to the practice area to do some maneuvers. It was a blustery and turbulent day. My instructor said, “See how you are doing minor corrections and riding the bumps out without a lot of effort? If you have a student who is afraid of turbulence, taking the controls and showing him exactly what you are doing now is the best lesson you can give.”

    I’ve always remembered that great advice.

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  2. Sam Dawson on Sep 29, 2013

    I will often make pilots put their hands on their lap and fly with just their feet. My point is NOT to get them flying with rudder, but to show them that a death grip on the yoke is not necessary and that often turbulence is made worse by the lose nut on the stick.

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  3. Brian on Sep 29, 2013

    I’m going to play devils advocate here. While first saying I was taught for years and always have been in agreement with what’s already been said.

    That being said, I recently began working at an airport with some guys who you would likely stick in the box, “the aviation cowboys.” Now this isn’t to say they are daring and do stupid things, but they specialize in flying in conditions and into landing spots most of us could only dream of. A 400 foot strip is a pretty long runway by their standards.

    Anyways, about 8 months ago when I went there to do a standardization ride while applying to instruct I got a bit of a slap in the face. It was a modest day, 20ish knot winds gusting in the mid 20’s almost a direct crosswind. Not something I’d ever worry about at most fields. This field, however, is positioned with a 500 foot ridge about a quarter mile to the west, with lakes at either end, and 2000′ in length. The main runway is 3/21. In other words, a crosswind means winds perpendicular to the ridge.

    The instructor warned me about flying there on that day because of the conditions, but me being my super pilot self said it was fine and welcomed the challenge. Well….I did manage to get down safely without breaking the airplane or putting it down too hard, but boy was it a workout. His biggest criticism of my flying was being too loose with the controls.

    Here’s what I was told. “Brian, pretend you are shooting a video for a movie. In the movie the camera man has the camera set to only see what you see outside, it cannot see your hands. You want to make that outside picture look as though there is no wind at all. Don’t sit back and let things happen, react, and keep that picture perfectly fixed.”

    He went on further to say “think of a child trying to take a cookie from a jar. As soon as that child’s hand starts to move you need to immediately slap it back.”

    This is the first time I’d ever…EVER…heard any pilot anywhere tell me to fly like this. I was dumbstruck. That said, I asked him to demonstrate one that day. I’ve been kicking myself since for not recording it, but dammit he kept that outside picture so still I could have swore we didn’t have any wind. Now his hands, they were moving so frantically I thought the grease would wear off on the connecting rods.

    Anyway, I’m not sharing this to claim any technique wrong or right. I simply found this one incredibly peculiar and it fascinated me how well it could work. Especially from the standpoint of a backseat passenger who may not see the pilots actions. They wouldn’t even know there was wind! I still can’t do it myself nearly as well as he demonstrated was possible, but someday!

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  4. Sam Dawson on Sep 30, 2013

    Yes, in gusty winds a pilot must control the airplane, but normally what I see is over controlling, large inputs late verses small inputs early. S-turns down the final and I don’t mean the intentional s-turns. I can’t count the times I have had a student tell me things were bumpy and rough, but as soon as I took the controls things smoothed out significantly.

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  5. Mark Kolber on Sep 30, 2013

    Brian, you are not really describing anything different in terms of technique, just in terms of situation.

    At altitude, you can ride the bumps and accept deviations of altitude because, well, you’re at altitude. An altitude deviation, even of 100-200′, is a non-event. Try accepting that kind of deviation on short final 50′ above the ground! :EEK:

    But the technique you are describing does not involve over-controlling. What is does involve is something you hear over and over and over – “stay ahead of the airplane.” Whether it be a relatively calm day or a windy, blustery,gusting one, your goal on landing is exactly the same: on certerline with the longitudinal axis aligned and no drift. The way you do that, in any wind condition, is to keep your sight picture so solid that you immediately detect the slightest change and make the exact amount of adjustment necessary to put the picture back in its proper place.

    It’s not wild gyrations of the controls that get you there. What he was doing was, “he kept that outside picture so still I could have swore we didn’t have any wind.” “his hands, they were moving so frantically I thought the grease would wear off on the connecting rods” was just a series of continuous ‘just enough’ corrections that made res resulting picture smooth.

    If you think about it, you do it every day when driving on a highway, even on a very windy day. You don’t let go of the wheel but, unless you are a bad, distracted driver, you remain centered in your lane by picking up the sign cues of drift early, even with a strong side-gust, and correcting for it almost unconsciously. Think of what it would look like if you waited until the car drifted across the lane before doing anything.

    That’s your goal for flying – anticipation, early detection of the deviation, immediate appropriate correction.

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  6. Sam Dawson on Oct 01, 2013

    Or to rephrase what Mark wrote, in the words of that famous pilot Ty Webb! “Be the airplane.”

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  7. Brian on Oct 03, 2013

    I can’t say I’ve ever flown the way you guys mention. My technique up until this experience was akin to the comparison of a GPS’ sensitivity. That is, I would become more responsive as I approached the runway. Even as low as 50 feet I’d still ride a bump or gust and make a relaxed and coordinated input in reaction.

    Now if I’m feet from the ground controlling the flare, ok that’s a different story. However, doing it from the point I turn final, for me anyway, I found frantic reactions to, more often than not, do harm than good. You can’t possibly stay ahead of what you cannot see.

    Gusty winds over a ridge are completely unpredictable. One lap around you might feel you’re in a washing machine and the next lap barely get a bump. It’s not the same as landing on a relatively open field with a swamp or lake short of the runway on a hot day for instance. Sure, in that case you can be predictive and generally be right.

    I guess what I’m trying to say is you cannot possibly be predictive in all cases, sometimes reactive is the best you can do. Given that, if the reaction is delayed even by a second your actions may be harmful instead of helpful. So for me, pre this experience anyway, I rather relax and enjoy the ride while remaining alert if the disturbance was of a great enough magnitude. I’d never once shoved and twisted the controls around like I was in a boxing match. At least not until flare anyway.

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  8. Mark Kolber on Oct 04, 2013

    Brian, after reading the post, I still don’t see where what you are doing is different than what everyone else has described.

    At altitude, are you or are you not accepting deviations of altitude and course while keeping the airplane in a relatively level flight configuration?

    More importantly, close to the ground, are you or are you not seeing deviations as early as you can and making the smallest, earliest correction necessary to put you on the course you want? Having flown in the Colorado mountains for 20 years, I honestly can’t see successful landings in gusty conditions unless you are.

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