Welcome Guest. Sign in or Signup

9 Answers

Logging Time in PC12 as SIC or..

Asked by: 8182 views , , ,
FAA Regulations

I have Comercial Single/Multi High Performanc High Alt, Question: What time can I log if acting as a "Safety Pilot" on a Part 135 Flight. I wouldnt be on the charter certificate, the AC can be piloted by one PIC and the SIC seat is an approved passenger seat. Company just wants to have another safety catch in case of emerency. What time can I log?

Ace Any FAA Written Test!
Actual FAA Questions / Free Lifetime Updates
The best explanations in the business
Fast, efficient study.
Pass Your Checkride With Confidence!
FAA Practical Test prep that reflects actual checkrides.
Any checkride: Airplane, Helicopter, Glider, etc.
Written and maintained by actual pilot examiners and master CFIs.
The World's Most Trusted eLogbook
Be Organized, Current, Professional, and Safe.
Highly customizable - for student pilots through pros.
Free Transition Service for users of other eLogs.
Our sincere thanks to pilots such as yourself who support AskACFI while helping themselves by using the awesome PC, Mac, iPhone/iPad, and Android aviation apps of our sponsors.

9 Answers



  1. Frank on Dec 16, 2012

    You cannot legally log any of this time. If you do don’t tell any one.

    0 Votes Thumb up 0 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes



  2. Matthew Waugh on Dec 16, 2012

    I wouldn’t use the term “Safety Pilot” even in quotes – it implies certain things.

    As Frank points out you cannot log anything on the Part 135 legs, you are a passenger. However, the nature of charter work is that there are often empty legs, and these are flown Part 91, and on those legs you can log PIC when you are the sole manipulator of the controls.

    +1 Votes Thumb up 1 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes



  3. Aviator 96 on Dec 16, 2012

    Okay, great! Thanks guys, If i were a CFI.. would I be allowed to log A-PIC?

    0 Votes Thumb up 0 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes



  4. Mark Kolber on Dec 16, 2012

    For a highly technical version of the answer, and keeping in mind the the rules of logging flight time live in a world all to themselves…

    You can’t log anything as SIC. The SIC logging rule (61.51(f)) requires (among other things) that either the aircraft or the flight operation requires more than one pilot. The scenario of the question starts by telling us that is a single-pilot operation so, legalities aside, a necessary condition for logging SIC time has not been met.

    Assuming you at some point are (illegally) the sole manipulator of the flight controls, assuming the aircraft does not require a type rating, you may log the sole manipulator time as PIC under 61.51(e)((1)(1).

    The only problem with this is that your manipulation of the controls on this Part 135 flight is illegal. So, while the =logging= rules say you can log it, it just doesn’t seem to me to be the wisest course of action to post evidence of your illegal activity in your logbook. Kinda like stealing and airplane and logging the theft.

    0 Votes Thumb up 1 Votes Thumb down 1 Votes



  5. Sam Dawson on Dec 18, 2012

    To answer the last question about logging PIC as a CFI the answer is yes… but.
    Remember 61.189:
    “(a) A flight instructor must sign the logbook of each person to whom that instructor has given flight training or ground training.”

    There was a case where two CFIs were logging PIC time in the same airplane at the same time. Their excuse was that one was an instructor the other was logging PIC time as sole manipulator. The FAA said fine- show us the logbook entries necessary per 61.189. They could not show these entries so their certificates were revocked. The FAA takes a very dim view of false entries in log books.
    So if you log CFI time ensure you sign the logbook of the person receiving the instruction.

    0 Votes Thumb up 0 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes



  6. Mark Kolber on Dec 18, 2012

    Sam’s answer is correct from a logging standpoint, but if we’re still dealing with a Part 135 scenario, you’d now have a non-authorized pilot acting as a non-authorized instructor giving non-authorized instruction during the course of a Part 135 flight with both pilots logging the evidence of the violation. (Part 135 has its own set of qualifications for instructors in 135 training programs. See, for example, FAR 135.338).

    0 Votes Thumb up 0 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes



  7. Aviator 96 on Dec 18, 2012

    only get to log on empty legs as they are part 91.. if pax are on = no log. Thanks guys for all your inputs!

    0 Votes Thumb up 0 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes



  8. Sam Dawson on Dec 18, 2012

    Yeah- sorry I did not add the part about only doing this on part 91 legs.

    0 Votes Thumb up 0 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes



  9. Pc12driver on May 14, 2017

    PART 135.. if the operator has A015 exemption then the flight has to be conducted IFR and with a NOTE ,, NO USE OF AP,,
    If NO A015 then SIC is required

    Be aware operators fly 135 VFR as well in that case no need for SIC..

    If GOM says 2 pilots required.. well GOM is not regulation neither insurance so can not log SIC..

    0 Votes Thumb up 0 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes


The following terms have been auto-detected the question above and any answers or discussion provided. Click on a term to see its definition from the Dauntless Aviation JargonBuster Glossary.

Answer Question

Our sincere thanks to all who contribute constructively to this forum in answering flight training questions. If you are a flight instructor or represent a flight school / FBO offering flight instruction, you are welcome to include links to your site and related contact information as it pertains to offering local flight instruction in a specific geographic area. Additionally, direct links to FAA and related official government sources of information are welcome. However we thank you for your understanding that links to other sites or text that may be construed as explicit or implicit advertising of other business, sites, or goods/services are not permitted even if such links nominally are relevant to the question asked.