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8 Answers

Logging Time in PC12 as SIC or..

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FAA Regulations

I have Comercial Single/Multi High Performanc High Alt, Question: What time can I log if acting as a "Safety Pilot" on a Part 135 Flight. I wouldnt be on the charter certificate, the AC can be piloted by one PIC and the SIC seat is an approved passenger seat. Company just wants to have another safety catch in case of emerency. What time can I log?

8 Answers



  1. Frank on Dec 16, 2012

    You cannot legally log any of this time. If you do don’t tell any one.

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  2. Matthew Waugh on Dec 16, 2012

    I wouldn’t use the term “Safety Pilot” even in quotes – it implies certain things.

    As Frank points out you cannot log anything on the Part 135 legs, you are a passenger. However, the nature of charter work is that there are often empty legs, and these are flown Part 91, and on those legs you can log PIC when you are the sole manipulator of the controls.

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  3. Aviator 96 on Dec 16, 2012

    Okay, great! Thanks guys, If i were a CFI.. would I be allowed to log A-PIC?

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  4. Mark Kolber on Dec 16, 2012

    For a highly technical version of the answer, and keeping in mind the the rules of logging flight time live in a world all to themselves…

    You can’t log anything as SIC. The SIC logging rule (61.51(f)) requires (among other things) that either the aircraft or the flight operation requires more than one pilot. The scenario of the question starts by telling us that is a single-pilot operation so, legalities aside, a necessary condition for logging SIC time has not been met.

    Assuming you at some point are (illegally) the sole manipulator of the flight controls, assuming the aircraft does not require a type rating, you may log the sole manipulator time as PIC under 61.51(e)((1)(1).

    The only problem with this is that your manipulation of the controls on this Part 135 flight is illegal. So, while the =logging= rules say you can log it, it just doesn’t seem to me to be the wisest course of action to post evidence of your illegal activity in your logbook. Kinda like stealing and airplane and logging the theft.

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  5. Sam Dawson on Dec 18, 2012

    To answer the last question about logging PIC as a CFI the answer is yes… but.
    Remember 61.189:
    “(a) A flight instructor must sign the logbook of each person to whom that instructor has given flight training or ground training.”

    There was a case where two CFIs were logging PIC time in the same airplane at the same time. Their excuse was that one was an instructor the other was logging PIC time as sole manipulator. The FAA said fine- show us the logbook entries necessary per 61.189. They could not show these entries so their certificates were revocked. The FAA takes a very dim view of false entries in log books.
    So if you log CFI time ensure you sign the logbook of the person receiving the instruction.

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  6. Mark Kolber on Dec 18, 2012

    Sam’s answer is correct from a logging standpoint, but if we’re still dealing with a Part 135 scenario, you’d now have a non-authorized pilot acting as a non-authorized instructor giving non-authorized instruction during the course of a Part 135 flight with both pilots logging the evidence of the violation. (Part 135 has its own set of qualifications for instructors in 135 training programs. See, for example, FAR 135.338).

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  7. Aviator 96 on Dec 18, 2012

    only get to log on empty legs as they are part 91.. if pax are on = no log. Thanks guys for all your inputs!

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  8. Sam Dawson on Dec 18, 2012

    Yeah- sorry I did not add the part about only doing this on part 91 legs.

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