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5 Answers

ATP MES Rating Question

Asked by: 6161 views Commercial Pilot, FAA Regulations

Getting close to the time mark to go get my ATP added on.  In the mean time though I'm considering a AMES rating.  I have heard from several instructors that if I have my Commerical Multi-Land & Sea, that when I do my ATP ride in a MEL airplane it will automatically bring my sea rating up with it, so that I will have ATP Multi-Land & Sea.  Their reasoning was that the only difference between the checkrides for commerical and ATP is the simulated instrument part, and since I have already demonstrated my ability in MES to commercial standards, and the instrument portion would be the same in any multi engine airplane, they stay together.  This sounds a little off to me, but would be nice to know that I could go get my MES rating while wating on the last few hours to accumulate for my ATP rating.  So does anybody know how this actually works?  And can they show me where it would state that in the Regs?  Thanks!

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5 Answers

  1. Wes Beard on Sep 28, 2011

    I have looked in the FARs, the PTS and 8900 there is no mention that a different category and class will automatically be upgraded when you complete a practical for a different category and class.
    I have no doubt the examiner will give you credit for portions of the AMES practical test based on completing them on the AMEL test.  However, the ATP PTS does not specifically allow this as it does for both the private and commercial PTS.  There are differences on the two tests specifically water takeoff and landings

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  2. Lance on Sep 28, 2011

    Thanks, I had looked in those as well and couldn’t find anything.  The argument I had heard was that since the takeoff and landing requirements and tolerances were the same for both the commercial and the ATP that they would upgrade as well.  Otherwise, when you add on your MES ATP, you would be simply repeating your MES Commercial checkride.
    On a second review of the regulations though I did find something interesting.  61.157(a)(1)(ii) uses the verbage
    “The practical test for an airline transport pilot certificate is given for an airplane category and multiengine class rating”
    which leads me to believe it could act like our Flight Instructor certificates, where if you simply add a commercial MES, you are now authorized to teach MES, as long as you have 5 hours PIC in type.  That same verbage is found throughout 61.157 as well.
    Any thoughts?

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  3. Wes Beard on Sep 29, 2011

    That is an interesting about the regulations.  I decided to take a look into both the private and commercial aeronautical experience and the same verbiage is there.  It leads me to believe that an AMES rating does not automatically upgrade when completing an ATP AMEL practical test.  After talking with others about this issue, we all agree that this is highly unlikely.

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  4. CFI Academy on Sep 30, 2011

    ATP checkride has to be done individually and separately for each category and class you want at the ATP level. I had a commercial AMEL, ASEL, IA and 2500 hours PIC when I went for my ATP ASEL (ASEL becasue the written was about to expire and the MEL airplane was grounded), and then the following year I went back for ATP AMEL, and then I decided to add ASES, which I ended up doing at commercial level, as the ASES airplane had no instruments to conduct any instrument approach, so was not eligible for ATP checkride. And then I went back for another checkride – AMES at ATP.
    So now my certificate says ATP – ASEL, AMEL, AMES, Commercial privileges – ASES
    And now I am working towards adding a helicopter – of course at Private level for now. Someday I’d like to have it at ATP level as well.
    However, as far as the CFI certificate (if you hold one), it is not limited to land or sea. So if you have CFI ASE and/or AME (note there is no L at the end) – you can teach in both sea and land, provided you have ASE and/or AME at least at commercial level.

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  5. Lance on Oct 01, 2011

    Thanks guys.  This is kind of the answer I suspected, I was just searching for a loophole to save me some money and still get both of them put on.  Looks like I’ll be finding an amphib to do my ATP.

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