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4 Answers

VFR maneuvers and VFR on Top or VFR Over the Top

Asked by: 1281 views ,
Airspace, FAA Regulations, Flight Instructor, General Aviation, Instrument Rating, Weather

Would it be possible to climb through IMC to VFR on Top, perform some VFR maneuvers (e.g., steep turns, slow flight, etc.) with a student in a practice area, then resume normal IFR procedures with an approach back to the original airport or another airport?  How would I file this on the IFR flight plan or request it in the air from ATC?

I’ve read some articles that briefly discuss the topic, which seem to imply it’s possible.  One mentioned filing an IFR flight plan from airport A to a fix /waypoint and in the remarks section indicate VFR on Top and define the practice area with an altitude block and radials from a fix.  For example, if tops are around 2000 MSL and clear above, file KGVL DCT AWSON DCT KGVL. Then in the Remarks, request VFR on Top, request an altitude block between 3500 MSL and 4500 MSL, and define the area as between AWSON radials 140 and 160, with a distance of 5 and 10 miles from AWSON.  Not sure if it makes a difference whether the fix is a VOR or other waypoint (e.g., GPS waypoint).

Or, given the same weather conditions, would it just be easier to file IFR from GVL to AWSON, cancel IFR and go VFR (Over the Top) once I am greater than 1000 ft above the tops, do my VFR maneuvers at VFR altitudes, then pick up a pop up IFR clearance when I’m ready to go back to GVL or another airport?  Not sure if it would good to file a second IFR flight plan from AWSON to GVL and pick up that clearance in the air vs. a pop up clearance. 

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4 Answers



  1. Mark Kolber on Dec 12, 2022

    I’d put “training” in the remarks and, once on top, “request block altitude between Xxxx And Yyyy for maneuvering flight.” ATC can be surprisingly flexible. I haven’t done this, but I’ve been on IFR flight where we’ve asked to go off route to sightsee.

    Now, you might get an “unable” due to traffic considerations. You can ask where might be better but a better strategy if that’s the goal, is to call the facility and discuss it before you ever take off.

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  2. Russ Roslewski on Dec 13, 2022

    I have done exactly this.

    One thing that people get overly concerned about is trying to come up with some “official” format for such a request. But there isn’t one.

    Remember that for a flight like this, the sole purpose of the IFR flight plan is to get you INTO the “system”. Once you’re in, you can negotiate whatever you like with ATC.

    So you file from KABC to KABC with a “route” of some fix near where you want to practice. It doesn’t really matter, just something. When ATC gets that flight plan, they KNOW it’s not somebody just wanting to fly to the point and come right back. They know you want to do SOME kind of training. Believe me, it’s not at all unusual. In fact, on your first call they’re probably going to respond with “radar contact, say intentions” or something similar. And then you just tell them what you want. Now that you’re “in the system”, nothing else really matters. Decide you want to fly a couple of approaches while you’re at it? Just let them know. Want a block altitude to do some spatial disorientation practice? Just ask them for it.

    In your second paragraph, you mention putting a bunch of stuff in the flight plan remarks. Don’t both. ATC sees a very limited number of characters from the remarks block. If you want, put “training” or something like that in there, but even that’s not necessary. It’s pretty obvious you’re training.

    The “VFR on top” bit is not necessary either. Just when you talk to them, request a block altitude and area. Pretty simple. “Request block altitude 4000 to 6000 within 10 nm of AWSON” or whatever. They’ll either approve it, modify it, or move it somewhere else, but that’s just a negotiation at that point. Really not a big deal!

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  3. mjc123 on Dec 18, 2022

    File an IFR flight plan with a request for VFR on top: As you mentioned, one option is to file an IFR flight plan with a request for VFR on top in the remarks section. This would allow you to fly through instrument meteorological conditions (IMC) to reach VMC, where you could then conduct your VFR maneuvers. To do this, you could specify a desired altitude block in the remarks section and define the practice area using a fix or waypoint and a distance or radial from that fix.

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  4. Craig on Dec 18, 2022

    Thank you everyone for the feedback and advice. I’ll give it a try and see whether the Atlanta controllers will be accommodating enough to work with my request.

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