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9 Answers

What can I do with this certificate?

Asked by: 2636 views ,
Flight Instructor

I am a former instructor in T-37, A-10, and F117 aircraft. Four years ago, I took the Mil Comp exam and was issued a MEII certificate with a centerline thrust restriction.  When the certificate was reissued two years ago the FAA changed the certificate to read....Flight Instructor Instrument Airplane.  I don't have a commercial license for single engine......seems I'm in limbo now.

What can I currently do in an instructor capacity? 

 

 

 

9 Answers



  1. Kris Kortokrax on Dec 11, 2013

    When the MilComp CFI thing started, there were some inspectors who rolled their own wording onto certificates. Yours appears to be one of those.

    While there are provisions in Order 8900.2 for placing a “Limited to center line thrust” limitation on a Pilot certificate, there is no provision for that on a Flight Instructor certificate.

    I think you can salvage the situation without a lot of trouble. Talk to your local FSDO. I believe that all you would need to do is to get a some instruction in a light twin that has a published Vmc speed and then get ahold of a DPE who is authorized to issue Flight Instructor Multi-engine certificates. I’m not sure exactly what maneuvers you might need to demonstrate.

    Currently, you can’t do much at all with just the Instrument Airplane rating. There is a legal interpretation establishing the limits.

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  2. Wes Beard on Dec 12, 2013

    Jeff,
    Do you have a commercial multi certificate? Does it have that limitation? I would call the local FSDO and discuss your situation and see if they will reissue your CFI certificate with the multi-engine rating put back on.

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  3. Jeff Robertson on Dec 12, 2013

    Wes and Kris

    Thanks for you insight. I have an unrestricted Multi Engine ATP and Single Engine Private.
    The plan was to get a Single Engine ATP Add-on and then CFI add-on. Don’t know if this will change the plan, but it sounds like a visit to the FSDO is in order. Was just hoping to get confirmation from working CFI’s that my current certificate is pretty much worthless in it’s current state.

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  4. Sam Dawson on Dec 13, 2013

    Basically right now if your flight instructor certificate is “Instrument Airplane” you can do absolutely nothing with it. You must have an instructor certificate in the category and class to be able to teach, even instruments. I’m sure someone on this board will still disagree with this and give me a thumbs down, but the FAA chief counsel has made this very clear as has the recent rewording of the FARs. You can do nothing with a stand alone CFII.

    Normally I would agree with the route you mentioned- getting the SEL ATP (an additional ATP is not really considered an add-on). In this case, however, you may want to consider doing the CSEL add-on since you will then be doing the CFI SEL and the same maneuvers are required for this ride. Steep spiral, chandells lazy 8’s, eights on pylons, power off 180, short/soft t/off and landing, emergency descent. No slow flight or stalls. I am including a link for the current PTS at the end of the message and the maneuver table is on page 22. The CSEL add-on is a fun check ride… well, as fun as a check ride can be. Very little oral, mostly flying and fun maneuvers. It can be done in pretty much any SEL airplane as you do not need to demonstrate complex proficiency. I’ve trained pilots for this in a Cessna 140.

    Other than that I would second what the others wrote and get your MEI re-instated. This should not be an issue if you still have copies of your IP orders.

    http://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/test_standards/media/FAA-S-8081-12C.pdf

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  5. Sam Dawson on Dec 13, 2013

    For your information, the pertinent regulation on instructing:
    61.195
    (b) Aircraft Ratings. A flight instructor may not conduct flight training in any aircraft for which the flight instructor does not hold:

    (1) A pilot certificate and flight instructor certificate with the applicable category and class rating; and

    (2) If appropriate, a type rating.

    (c) Instrument Rating. A flight instructor who provides instrument training for the issuance of an instrument rating, a type rating not limited to VFR, or the instrument training required for commercial pilot and airline transport pilot certificates must hold an instrument rating on his or her pilot certificate and flight instructor certificate that is appropriate to the category and class of aircraft used for the training provided.

    Here is the FAA Chief Counsel opinion I mentioned:
    http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/pol_adjudication/agc200/interpretations/data/interps/2010/grayson-2%20-%20(2010)%20legal%20interpretation.pdf

    This states you may not even teach in a simulator:
    http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/pol_adjudication/agc200/interpretations/data/interps/2012/beard%20-%20(2012)%20legal%20interpretation.pdf

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  6. Kris Kortokrax on Dec 13, 2013

    Reinstatement of the ME rating on his flight instructor certificate will not happen.

    Order 8900.1 Volume 5, Chapter 1, Section 4 lists military airplanes which have no published Vmc and require the limitation “Limited to Center Thrust” to be placed on a pilot certificate.

    Support for this also exists in Order 8900.2.

    If one looks at the Commercial PTS, there is language stating that an applicant will not be evaluated on the Vmc Demo task if using an airplane “Limited to Center Thrust”.

    There is no such language in the Flight Instructor Airplane PTS.

    The Multi-engine rating was placed on the initial Flight Instructor in error. It was subsequently removed by the FAA. It will not be automatically reinstated.

    In order to get the Multi-engine rating placed on his Flight Instructor certificate, he will need to take a practical test in an airplane with a published Vmc.

    To verify this, call Airman Certification in Oklahoma City at 866-878-2498.

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  7. Kris Kortokrax on Dec 13, 2013

    Forgot to mention that the T-37, A-10 and F-117 are all listed in 8900.1 as Center Thrust airplanes. That is why the ME rating won’t be place on his certificate.

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  8. Sam Dawson on Dec 13, 2013

    I forgot to check 8900 orders. I did not realize that those who were IPs in center-line thrust were caught up in that conundrum.

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  9. CFI Academy on Jan 02, 2014

    I teach in the Beale AFB area – and I get a lot of pilots/IPs in your situation. These guys are flying U-2s and T38s.
    And you might want to look into a commercial ASEL + CFI ASE combination course.

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