CFI Initial practical test endorsements – still confused

8 Answers

1. 
   

   
   

   KDS on Sep 06, 2018

   https://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/media/testing_matrix.pdf

   +1 Votes 1 Votes  0 Votes

2. 
   

   
   

   ayavner on Sep 06, 2018

   thanks KDS – here is part of my confusion. The matrix addresses what i need in order to take the exam. On page 10:

   Authorization for Flight and Ground Instructor tests listed above (except AFA, AFG, GFA, and HFA):
   • Requires NO instructor endorsement or other form of written authorization

   Which is fine, as I stated, I already have taken the tests.

   What I don’t see is anything to contradict 61.65 A.41 or 61.183(d) which seem to be clear that I will ultimately need to get this in my logbook before showing up for the Checkride. Or did I miss something on the matrix document? Thanks!
   adam

   0 Votes 0 Votes  0 Votes

3. 
   

   
   

   ayavner on Sep 06, 2018

   .. it is of course entirely possible that I am overthinking this…

   0 Votes 0 Votes  0 Votes

4. Best Answer
   
   

   
   

   KDS on Sep 06, 2018

   Okay, I think I understand your question. Let’s see if this answer it.

   Not all applicants are required to pass the FOI test. So, the endorsement, while not necessary to take the knowledge test (written test) is needed to take the practical test (check ride). I “assume” the FAA’s logic is to ensure that everyone has the training as it applies to what is on the FOI test, and that includes those who did not have to take the FOI test.

   In researching your question, I went back to a document given to me by an FAA Inspector who specialized in that area. Among the required endorsements he listed in that document, that is not one of them. So I suspect what happens is that examiners interpret the passing of the FOI as the endorsement.

   The real world situation is that different reasonable knowledgeable people can look at the same thing and come up with different interpretations. So, not every DPE and every FAA Inspector is going to see it exactly the same way. However, you can never go wrong having more than the examiner wants to see. So, my advice is to get that endorsement. I would think that you know an instructor who is reasonable enough to sit down with you for an hour while you show them what you studied and your FOI test results and then endorse your logbook saying you had received training on those required subjects because that is exactly what you have done and what you can demonstrate.

   If that is a difficulty, Plan B is to call the person who will administer the practical test and ask if your FOI test results satisfy that endorsement (in their opinion). However, that would be a last resort in my book because you’re going in for a CFI test and you should be telling, not asking. (However, there isn’t an instructor alive who won’t tell you they learned more faster after receiving their CFI than they ever did before.)

   I hope that was of some help. I wish you good luck and hope we hear good news from you as a future time.

   +1 Votes 1 Votes  0 Votes

5. 
   

   
   

   ayavner on Sep 07, 2018

   Wow, thanks for the detailed response! I also did a lot more digging and came up with the following based on further reading of 61.65G:

   7.2 Evidence of Completion. Applicants are not required to show such evidence to take the ATP, flight instructor, ground instructor, military competency, or foreign pilot instrument knowledge tests unless they are applying to retake a test after failing that test per § 61.49.

   …so the way i read that is it is not required in order to take the exam in the first place, therefore doesn’t need to be in the logbook to show the DPE – UNLESS, the test is failed, then you would endorse the student, they would retake the test and hopefully pass, and that circumstance would be reflected by the appearance of that endorsement in the logbook.

   So A.41 and A.42 might be more clear if it stated something like “if required due to exam failure”.

   I am also hoping for good news very soon, my main hangup is stupid steep turns from the right seat, and a bit more smoothness in teaching while demonstrating. I feel like the oral stuff is going about as well as it can.

   All the best
   adam

   0 Votes 0 Votes  0 Votes

6. 
   

   
   

   KDS on Sep 07, 2018

   People waste a lot of money trying to perfect their flying from the right seat. The teaching is real the heart of the matter. The toughest part for most applicants is talking and flying at the same time. So, how do you learn to do that? Well, one way is to spend $100 an hour and go up in an airplane and talk while you fly. Another method is to teach yourself to drive. As you go down the road, out loud, talk as if you were demonstrating to a student how to drive.

   In a little bit, we will want to be in the right lane so we can make the exit. So, the first step is to check all around and ensure we have situational awareness. If it looks like a good time to change lanes, we do a three point check. Inside mirror, outside mirror, and over the shoulder. If everything still looks okay, the turn signal goes on. Be sure to do that enough in advance that it will blink a couple time before the actual lane change. Now begin moving into the other lane. Don’t dawdle during the lane change, but don’t do it so quickly that another driver wouldn’t have time to sound the horn in case you made a mistake. Once we’re about one third of the way into the new lane we can increase the rate of lateral movement. Then the last step of the lane change maneuver is to cancel the turn signal. Do you have any questions about what I have just demonstrated. Okay fine. Now I want you to talk me through a lane change while I execute the maneuver.

   That is just one area where the opportunity to teach will present itself. You’ll find many others. It gives you lots of practice taking and doing something. It also makes you look crazy to other drivers who see you talking to yourself while you’re in the car all alone, but don’t worry about it.

   You’ll still want to do that in an airplane, but if you do it in the car, you’ll become more comfortable doing that with less expensive flight time. Also don’t forget there are times when you should be talking and times when you should be silently evaluating. For the purpose of the practical test, it’s worth saying something like “At this point I’ll remain silent while I allow the student to perform the maneuver as I evaluate”.

   +1 Votes 1 Votes  0 Votes

7. 
   

   
   

   ayavner on Sep 07, 2018

   Fantastic, I will start looking at it that way! Reminds me, that is exactly how I used to practice my radio calls back when I first started flying… driving around. I can’t thank you enough for the helpful, well-articulated responses you’ve given me so far – an excellent welcome to the site!

   I hope that in time I can do the same one day for others! Really glad I found this forum…

   (right seat perfection is probably a reality though if I want my CFI to sign me off…)

   0 Votes 0 Votes  0 Votes

8. 
   

   
   

   HelicopterTrainingVideos.com on Sep 05, 2024

   UPDATE September 1st, 2024:

   You now need to present an endorsement to a test center to take the FOI Knowledge Test.

   Read more about it here https://www.helicoptertrainingvideos.com/2024/07/new-foi-knowledge-test-endorsement-now-required

   0 Votes 0 Votes  0 Votes