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6 Answers

IFR time help..

Asked by: 7101 views ,
FAA Regulations, Instrument Rating

Can someone give me an idea of correct way to interpret this:

  • At least 50 hours of cross-country flight time as pilot in command. At least 10 of these hours must be in airplanes for an instrument-airplane rating.
  • A total of 40 hours of actual or simulated instrument time on the areas of operation listed in 61.65(c).
  • At least 15 hours of instrument flight training from an authorized instructor in the aircraft category for the instrument rating sought.

Is this a total of 105 hours (50+40+15) or does some of this overlap.? If you log 40 hours of Instrument time and 15 hours of that is with an instructor have you satisfied both of those requirements? Also, the top bullet point there says 50 hours of cross-country time as PIC. Does any of that have to be IFR? Or can you count ANY cross-country time you have flown? So, theoretically any CC time I have flown between getting PPL and IFR training would count toward this requirement? Thanks in advance for your help.

 

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6 Answers



  1. Matt B on May 15, 2018

    You are correct, these are TOTAL times so they all overlap with each other. In my personal opinion here is where you can save a lot of money on getting your instrument rating:

    1) 50 Hours of XC time as PIC: Does not say has to be in VFR, IFR, IMC, or VMC. Just states XC time. So any XC >50nm (remember we are talking about furtherance of a certificate) counts.

    2) If you are going straight from getting your PPL to instrument training, odds are you won’t have these 50 Hours of required XC time. Do your remaining XC time under the hood to start knocking out your “40 hours XC instrument time” and the 50 hour requirement mentioned above.

    3) 15 hours from an instructor: This one is the iffy one where I hear many opinions on but I’m just gonna throw my 2 cents in the pot. I’m saying (if I’m reading the regs correctly) that this is LEGAL….Might not necessarily be the smartest thing to do.

    Scenario: I just got my PPL with 12 hours of XC time >50Nm. So that means I have 38 more hours of XC to go. Do 10 hours with an instructor while flying cross countries (enough to get good instruction time and the necessary knowledge of instrument flying under your belt). Now your down to 28 hours needed TOTAL TIME. Go out and rent an airplane with you and a competent instrument rated pilot (preferably a friend who wants to split the cost of the airplane) to complete some fun XC flying for the last 28 hours. During this time you can refine your IFR skills and flying technique while under the hood with a qualified safety pilot. **remember if the person you fly with is not a CFI-I, you cannot count this as “Dual Received” only Total Time and PIC. Once you feel 100% confident, go back to your original instructor for the last “5 hours of instrument training with an instructor” and shoot as many approaches and holds as possible before you get signed off for your practical.

    This is purely a money saving technique because hopefully you can find a buddy to split the price of the plane with and you won’t have to pay for an instructor to sit next to you and baby sit while you get your XC time.

    Again, this is LEGAL but I understand this won’t work for every situation. Some people need all 50 Hours to be taught by an instructor. Nothing wrong with that. Just make sure you feel 100% ready not only to pass your check ride but to operate in the IFR “real world”.

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  2. losbright1 on May 15, 2018

    So, what you are saying is that the 40, and the 15 both overlap the 50. So, theoretically 50 is the “minimum” when taking your practical. 40 of that has to be IFR, including 15 with Instructor. The other 10 hours can be VFR cross-country solo..
    I assume this also translates to the Commercial rating as well..so, it is smarter to fly most of your time cross-country in a Instrument flight to cover more “ground” in attaining your required time for both ratings.

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  3. Matt B on May 15, 2018

    Yes, I believe me and you are on the same page but I just need to clarify a couple of things.

    1. “40 of it has to be IFR”. Not necessarily, you can accomplish this by flying “simulated IFR” on a VFR flight plan while your under the hood with a qualified safety pilot. Or you can file IFR as long as the person you are flying with is instrumented rated and current. Either one works.

    2. “The other 10 hours can be VFR cross-country solo”: I think what you are referring to is your Private Pilot Solo XC flights. If so, yes. When your solo as a student pilot you are automatically PIC of the airplane so these hours would count towards your 50 Hour requirement. All the hours you received with your instructor would not because as a student pilot you cannot log PIC if you’re with the instructor. Hope that made sense.

    So in the grand Scheme of things: you are only required to log 15 hours of Dual Given by an instrument instructor to meet the minimum requirement. Meeting the XC requirements of the regulation can be done on your own time! Save your self the money and don’t pay for an instructor to sit there with you on long cross countries!

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  4. Mark Kolber on May 16, 2018

    it is smarter to fly most of your time cross-country in a Instrument flight to cover more “ground” in attaining your required time for both ratings.

    Maybe yes, maybe no. There’s going to be some efficiency value in doing some dual cross countries during instrument training in addition to the required dual cross country. But overdone, you can also end up spending more time.

    The rating is about learning, not just accumulating hours. Most instrument training involves multiple types of approaches, holds, emergencies, and task saturation. And, while only 15 of the 40 instrument hours technically require a CFII, most students do more than that, and more than 40 hours in order to get it right. The majority of the tasks are repetitive, to a large degree necessarily so. The whole process is very approach and emergency intensive (which is a bit unfortunate).

    So in a typical lesson, you might do 4 approaches (including partial panel) and some holding procedures. Maybe one less approach, but add an emergency. That’s going to fill that time slot. But translate that into a cross country in which half of the flight time is droning along enroute between airports and you have to either lengthen the flight time or do away with some of the learning.

    That’s not going to be efficient from a training standpoint and more expensive from a cost standpoint. IMO a good compromise is to mix them. For example, you might do a cross country with a safety pilot and practice a few of the tasks you already learned, like doing the flight under the hood and a practice approach at both ends.

    I call this the instrument student version of “solo.” And, like student solo, it’s best coordinated with your instructor.

    The benefit is, you’ve potentially reduced the number of CFI hours you need because you are practicing what you learned, get your cross country hours cheaper because you are not paying for CFI time to build cross country time), and have some fun choosing and flying to new places with a buddy.

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  5. losbright1 on May 30, 2018

    Also, can someone point me to a place in the Regs that explains exactly what constitutes “cross-country”? The IFR requirements mention 50 hours of Cross-Country, but does not list a required distance except in the one section that says ONE of the cross-country flights must be of 250Nm…The rest of the time can be less than, or more than 250Nm as long as it all adds up to 50 hours. That is my interpretation anyway. So, you can either fly a bunch of flights to other local airports, or a few 300+ mile flights and get the same time.

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  6. EAD on May 30, 2018

    Look at FAR 61.1 (b). Cross country time is defined there.

    The FARs specify that any XC time used to fulfill the experience requirements for Private Pilot, Commercial Pilot, and Instrument ratings must be conducted to an airport more than 50nm from the original point of departure.

    Simply put, there are 2 “classes” of XC (3 if you want to count the ATP exception).
    1. There is “point-to-point” XC which is landing anywhere that is not the airport you originally departed from. (Fun fact, I have logged a 5.5 hour XC flight to an airport that was only 5nm away from my original departure point)

    2. Then there is the “certificate and rating” XC time. This is where the 50nm rule comes into effect.

    There can be value in logging the 2 types separately, especially if you are going to make a career out of aviation.

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