Class E surface extension SVFR?

5 Answers

1. 
   

   
   

   Kris Kortokrax on Nov 23, 2014

   91.155 deals with weather minima. In Class E below 10,000, you need 3 miles visibility and cloud clearance as specified. There is no communication requirement as there would be to enter the Class D.

   I would think that there would be very few occasions where the airport would be IFR and the extension would not be.

   If the Class D is closed, then the D and the E extension would appear to be one contiguous piece of surface based Class E airspace and to enter it, you would need a SVFR clearance to enter it, if the weather inside the area is below VFR minima.

   0 Votes 0 Votes  0 Votes

2. 
   

   
   

   Mark Kolber on Nov 24, 2014

   Of course, the other issue is who would issue the clearance in the extension. It’s not in the Tower’s jurisdiction (even if the Tower is open, at least in the absence of an agreement between Tower and Seattle Center).

   On the main question, seems to me if it is VFR in the extension, it is VFR in the extension. Why would one need an SVFR clearance where it’s VFR?

   I’m trying to visualize: I am VFR southeast of KRDM, traveling northeast to S39. It’s a cool, clear morning with unrestricted visibility, but as I cross into the Class E surface area, I notice that 12 miles to the northwest, there some localized early morning fog hanging right over KRDM. I can’t imagine a reason to call for an SVFR clearance.

   0 Votes 0 Votes  0 Votes

3. 
   

   
   

   John D Collins on Nov 24, 2014

   91.155 and 91.157 are written in such a way to only prohibit flight in the Class D or E when taking off or landing or entering the pattern under VFR and not while transiting the airspace. 91.129 requires radio contact be maintained while transiting the airspace. I can’t see from the regulations where flight transiting the airspace lateral boundaries of the airspace would be required if 91.155 minimums are maintained. Although 91.157 prescribes special VFR minimums are authorized up to 10000 MSL above the lateral boundaries of the airspace, it does not use ground visibility as controlling unless the aircraft is taking off or landing.

   In a prior life, I flew out of the San Jose area airport Reid Hillview. During the summer, smog was often restricting visibility to below 3 SM and we would get a special VFR clearance inside the control zone (today we call it Class D). Climbing to 1500 feet would often put us in CAVU conditions and we would cancel the special VFR. Same with overflying the airports down below that were low visibility in smog. As long as we established contact if required, there was no request for special VFR if we were just transiting the area. I don’t see the difference if 91.155 is satisfied while above the class D or E extension.

   Mark, 7400.9Z defines the E airspace as an extension to the D, so I would think that if the pilot was flying thru this airspace for the purposes of taking off or landing or entering the traffic pattern, when the tower is open, they control the D and its E extension and when the tower is closed, the extension would and airport surface E would be controlled by TRACON. The airspace has a weird definition and is only 2 NM wide, so it would not be relevant for approaches as far as I can see. Maybe it was added for Helicopter or other low level operations.

   Here are the regulations:

   91.155 (d) “Except as provided in Sec. 91.157 of this part, no person may take off or land an aircraft, or enter the traffic pattern of an airport, under VFR, within the lateral boundaries of the surface areas of Class B, Class C, Class D, or Class E airspace designated for an airport–
   (1) Unless ground visibility at that airport is at least 3 statute miles; or
   (2) If ground visibility is not reported at that airport, unless flight visibility during landing or takeoff, or while operating in the traffic pattern is at least 3 statute miles”.

   91.157 Special VFR weather minimums.

   (a) Except as provided in appendix D, section 3, of this part, special VFR operations may be conducted under the weather minimums and requirements of this section, instead of those contained in Sec. 91.155, below 10,000 feet MSL within the airspace contained by the upward extension of the lateral boundaries of the controlled airspace designated to the surface for an airport.
   (b) Special VFR operations may only be conducted–
   (1) With an ATC clearance;
   (2) Clear of clouds;
   (3) Except for helicopters, when flight visibility is at least 1 statute mile; and
   (4) Except for helicopters, between sunrise and sunset (or in Alaska, when the sun is 6 degrees or more below the horizon) unless–
   (i) The person being granted the ATC clearance meets the applicable requirements for instrument flight under part 61 of this chapter; and
   (ii) The aircraft is equipped as required in Sec. 91.205(d).
   (c) No person may take off or land an aircraft (other than a helicopter) under special VFR–
   (1) Unless ground visibility is at least 1 statute mile; or
   (2) If ground visibility is not reported, unless flight visibility is at least 1 statute mile. For the purposes of this paragraph, the term flight visibility includes the visibility from the cockpit of an aircraft in takeoff position if:
   (i) The flight is conducted under this part 91; and
   (ii) The airport at which the aircraft is located is a satellite airport that does not have weather reporting capabilities.
   (d) The determination of visibility by a pilot in accordance with paragraph (c)(2) of this section is not an official weather report or an official ground visibility report.

   +2 Votes 2 Votes  0 Votes

4. 
   

   
   

   J on Dec 11, 2014

   Thanks for the responses. John, it seems you are saying you can transit class D if it is below basic VFR if you are not landing, etc. But, if the ceiling is below 1,000, even transit through the surface airspace would be against regulations the way I read it:

   91.155c) Except as provided in Sec. 91.157, no person may operate an aircraft beneath the ceiling under VFR within the lateral boundaries of controlled airspace designated to the surface for an airport when the ceiling is less than 1,000 feet.

   0 Votes 0 Votes  0 Votes

5. 
   

   
   

   J on Dec 11, 2014

   Or rather, only if flying UNDER a 1000 ceiling? So if a low cloud bank sits over the airport at 900’AGL, you are OK to transit the airspace as long as it is at least 1000 ceiling above your flight path…?

   0 Votes 0 Votes  0 Votes